My M11-P experience

[IkarusJohn]

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1 hour ago, sebben said:

That’s because New Zealand has an extreme cost of living crisis. Not many people afford food, rent or mortgage payments and a Leica due to decades of terrible policies that favour the rich and wealthy. 

True

[adan]

On 4/21/2024 at 9:59 AM, Herr Barnack said:

We are supposed to buy TWO $9200 USD M11-P bodies in the hope that ONE of them will be functional when we need it??  I don't think so.  If both of them crap out, are we supposed to buy #3 to cover for the first two??  Wrong.

Well, I acquire at least two of any camera (even bulletproof Nikon Fs in the 1970s) as soon as I can (backed up my first M4-2 in March 2001 with an M4-P by Sept.). Because even a 2-week wait for servicing doesn't cut it for me - I live to shoot (and shoot to live).

I do have four M10s at the moment (two original vanilla, one -P, one -M). But that's overkill - even though three were purchased at deep used discounts to try out. I've just been too lazy to dispose of the excess yet.

But the current M11/Leica-service situation is beyond all reason, and I am as disgusted with it as any unhappy M11 owner. "There but for the grace of Bog...." - could have been me.

Edited April 25, 2024 by adan

[opera207]

This may be the reason why I feel insecure about holding a Leica camera. Sooner or later, I will deal with this insecurity by replacing it with another camera.

[Herr Barnack]

16 hours ago, adan said:

Well, I acquire at least two of any camera (even bulletproof Nikon Fs in the 1970s) as soon as I can (backed up my first M4-2 in March 2001 with an M4-P by Sept.). Because even a 2-week wait for servicing doesn't cut it for me - I live to shoot (and shoot to live).

I do have four M10s at the moment (two original vanilla, one -P, one -M). But that's overkill - even though three were purchased at deep used discounts to try out. I've just been too lazy to dispose of the excess yet.

But the current M11/Leica-service situation is beyond all reason, and I am as disgusted with it as any unhappy M11 owner. "There but for the grace of Bog...." - could have been me.

It is a given that having a backup camera is a good idea, even for amateur photographers. 

It is also beyond all reason that 27 months after the release of the M11, buyers are still having $9200 USD cameras come out of the box that are dysfunctional.

[charlesphoto99]

The problem is, if a camera freezes at the opportune moment, having a backup body does no good - that's only for if the camera bricks entirely and one needs to complete the job, vacation, etc. 

[Kiwimac]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:20 AM, sebben said:

That’s because New Zealand has an extreme cost of living crisis. Not many people afford food, rent or mortgage payments and a Leica due to decades of terrible policies that favour the rich and wealthy. 

Based on living here 20 years I’d be left with no option but to disagree with you. 

[IkarusJohn]

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12 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

Based on living here 20 years I’d be left with no option but to disagree with you. 

Having lived here for all my 65 years (bar 8 years, 30 years ago), I do think we’re at a crisis point where the cost of living is higher than most other places, and average incomes lower.

The McDonald’s Big Mac Index for NZ is $5.01, which puts us at 17th

The average annual income is US$49,090, which is 24th

8th in house price to income - ie, there are only 7 countries where huose prices are more expensive, in relation to incomes.

We have the 16th highest cost of living globally

Tried to find a cost of living comparison based on incomes, but I think you get the picture.  It would be cheaper for me to hire out my home in Auckland, and rent in France, Italy, Germany or pretty much anywhere else in Europe.  I love traveling to Europe - everything seems so much cheaper, and if I billed my time in Euro …

[Kiwimac]

I don’t find it particularly bothersome and it’s certainly possible to earn plenty if you’ve the right skills although I have to say that relying on the same basic economic model of sheep, milk and tourism that worked well in 1950 suggests a considerable lack of strategic thinking on the part of government for about 50 years. 
 

There’s provision in the Australian constitution for NZ to join the federation and in all honestly we really should because I can’t see any other way out of the dead end the politicians have sent us down. I find that an unpopular suggestion but as I’ve pointed out in discussions elsewhere, pride won’t pay the nation’s bills. 
 

It’s a very fine place to take photos however. 

[sebben]

10 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

Based on living here 20 years I’d be left with no option but to disagree with you. 

Yeah. Good for you. All I can say is that after being born in New Zealand and leaving after 25 years I have managed to accomplish things that would have been impossible if I had stayed and I’m not the only one. 
 

 

[Rollei35]

23 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

Based on living here 20 years I’d be left with no option but to disagree with you. 

Sorry to say this, but New Zealand would be even less known than Fiji if it were not for the Lord of Ring. It's a lost place that has been a tandem to Australia

[IkarusJohn]

1 minute ago, Rollei35 said:

Sorry to say this, but New Zealand would be even less known than Fiji if it were not for the Lord of Ring. It's a lost place that has been a tandem to Australia

Quite right.  It gives me and many friends great pleasure when maps are printed with NZ left off, and also when people think we're in Australia (after they realise we're not in Switzerland).  When asked, I invariably say NZ is to the West of Australia.

If only Abel Tasman and James Cook had kept their mouths shut - "Nothing to see here.  Move on."

[dugby]

22 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

I don’t find it particularly bothersome and it’s certainly possible to earn plenty if you’ve the right skills although I have to say that relying on the same basic economic model of sheep, milk and tourism that worked well in 1950 suggests a considerable lack of strategic thinking on the part of government for about 50 years. 
 

There’s provision in the Australian constitution for NZ to join the federation and in all honestly we really should because I can’t see any other way out of the dead end the politicians have sent us down. I find that an unpopular suggestion but as I’ve pointed out in discussions elsewhere, pride won’t pay the nation’s bills. 
 

It’s a very fine place to take photos however. 

The west-side of the West Island welcomes Kiwis, don't know about the east-side of the West Island....

[Kiwimac]

18 hours ago, sebben said:

Yeah. Good for you. All I can say is that after being born in New Zealand and leaving after 25 years I have managed to accomplish things that would have been impossible if I had stayed and I’m not the only one. 
 

 

We accomplished them before moving!

[Sandokan]

irrelevant - please delete

Edited April 29, 2024 by Sandokan

[Derbyshire Man]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:07 PM, waltb said:

I bought an M11-P in January. Loved the camera. After almost 3 months the shutter release button stopped working correctly. Suddenly had to press way harder to trigger the shutter.
Went back to the store I bought it from, they returned the camera to Leica.
After 2 weeks I call and e-mail Leica Wetzlar with 2 questions. (The call gets cut off multiple times so I just e-mail.)
How long is the repair going to take. No answer. (Store told me it could take up to 10 weeks, which is longer than I had the camera in my posession)
Can the camera just be replaced since it's less then 3 months old. No.
Can I get a loaner for the duration of the repair? Reply: Only professionals get a loaner.
I am a professional and I do make my living with photography. No reply.

And now, because the camera was sent through the shop, I was told they will no longer update me directly and all communication needs to go through the shop.
From the quote they received the whole camera needs to be taken apart to fix the shutter.
Repair printed circuit of top plate
Repair printed circuit of imageboard
...
So far this has been a very frustrating experience. Thank god I still have my m6 and sony r5, but I had expected some more support.
Just wanted to share my experience..

Ah, just read this and related to my own experience. I think this has answered my question as to what to do with the errant camera!

[waltb]

Back to the topic.
After missing my camera for 6 weeks and as the only communication having a web page where I now see my camera is being repaired since 4/4,
I asked customer service again if they have a lead time for me.
Answer: As usual a very short reply:
Dear mr. ...
the lead time is approx 4 month.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen | Kind regards

This is a new camera bought in January, not my 25 year old m6...
I'm baffled. I answered that I really need a replacement camera.
We'll see what happens next...

[Strmbrg]

What is the purpose of buying this very high-priced cameras, if they are less reliable than much less expensive brands?
I bought my M10-R partly because my first Leica, the Q2, was very agile and reliable. My M10-R is second-hand and in the box was some receipt or something that may indicate that the camera has been in for some work. The text on it doesn't explain anything in detail.
Well, I haven't had any issues with it so far (four months) and if something happens I will directly stop using product from this manufacturer.
Cameras for those crazily high prices shall just work, without failures. Of course cameras shall work even if they cost a tenth of those crazy prices. Why shouldn't they?

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Strmbrg said:

What is the purpose of buying this very high-priced cameras, if they are less reliable than much less expensive brands?
I bought my M10-R partly because my first Leica, the Q2, was very agile and reliable. My M10-R is second-hand and in the box was some receipt or something that may indicate that the camera has been in for some work. The text on it doesn't explain anything in detail.
Well, I haven't had any issues with it so far (four months) and if something happens I will directly stop using product from this manufacturer.
Cameras for those crazily high prices shall just work, without failures. Of course cameras shall work even if they cost a tenth of those crazy prices. Why shouldn't they?

Your assumption that M11 or Leica cameras are unreliable is wrong. Yes, there should have been fewer issues, but most owners do not have any problems.

My two M11s are as reliable as my M10-R, which never had any issues. My first M11, acquired at the launch date, had a non-reliability issue. My dealer replaced it in a couple of weeks, and I was able to shoot with the camera that I owned.

You should enjoy your M10-R and not fear your camera failing.

[Strmbrg]

20 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Your assumption that M11 or Leica cameras are unreliable is wrong. Yes, there should have been fewer issues, but most owners do not have any problems.

My two M11s are as reliable as my M10-R, which never had any issues. My first M11, acquired at the launch date, had a non-reliability issue. My dealer replaced it in a couple of weeks, and I was able to shoot with the camera that I owned.

You should enjoy your M10-R and not fear your camera failing.

Thanks! Well, it may give an improper view of reality when taking part of issues presented on the internet. Most likely those who experience problems dominate the impression one gets.
I don't really assume that Leicas are unreliable, but my impression is that there is too much issues. But as written above - ones impression can easily be very distorted.
Specifically regarding the shutter-button: I may be stupid, but a metal knob with spring-loaded resistance and a dent on its way down is as far as I understand a mechanical unit in that part. Not a software-function. I.e. if one have to press it mechanically very hard and very deep to release the shutter, it cannot be solved with any software-upgrade.

Speculations, but maybe there is some kind of contact-point on a circuit board which shall be activated by the mechanical force. If the circuit board "happens" to be seated some mm too deep relative to the mechanical part, there may be an issue that shows up in the described matter.
Speculative of course, but very "sloppy" assembled or not rigidly constructed if that is the case.

Edited May 2, 2024 by Strmbrg

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[waltb]

The problem is not that the m11 has issues, or the reliability the problem is that leica will not replace the camera if it's more then 1 month in your possession and the repair lead time is 4 months.