How widespread is the ‘FREEZE’ problem!?

[DadDadDaddyo]

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I've only had a handful of freezes on my M11, and none on my M11M. By "handful" I mean less than five. These I freely attribute to my own ham-fisted control inputs at moments of extremity. (The part of the automobile most like to fail: the nut that holds the wheel...)

This business about SD cards got me wondering, so I just grabbed the cameras and checked....

In both the M11 and M11M I have a SanDisk Extreme Pro 300 MB/s card of 64GB capacity. 

Before either went into the camera for the first time I did a low-level format using SD Card Formatter on each, followed by a format in the camera itself. Never did that in the past but after the kerfuffle and reading about it here, I started using it, figuring, belt & braces. 

An additional data point: I don't think I've ever seen file corruption among the many thousands of shots from all the digital Leicas I've owned & used. I've simply never run into it. 

I've used SanDisk cards throughout, without exception. 

Edited March 28, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo
Typo

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[hdmesa]

On 3/27/2024 at 5:55 AM, justru49 said:

To be clear: this problem shouldn't be there! But these 2k posts don't say much about the quantity of freezing cameras, as nearly 750 of the 2000 posts came from only 4 members, see thread-statistic

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Well, I did own THREE M11s that had the freezing issue before getting a fourth that was fine, so I feel somewhat entitled to have the second highest post count in that thread 🫠

Plus these threads are not meant to be representative of how many people have problems. What they might be representative of is the severity of the issue combined with the tenacity of the owners with problems trying to find a common cause, find a resolution/fix, etc. We're doing the good work on Leica's behalf here.

 

[fotografr]

5 hours ago, algrove said:

Will there be an M13 or has that spot been reserved for the M11?

I think they will skip that model, just like the elevators in large hotels. 

[DadDadDaddyo]

M13 is one of the most beautiful objects in the night sky.

M13 is notable even in binoculars. In a decent refractor, reflector, or Schmidt Cassegrain, it will simply take your breath away. 

I'm referring, of course, to the Messier Catalog. 

If you're not familiar with Charles Messier, or his catalog, or M13, Google them and then hit the links into Wikipedia....

It's not a bad name. I'd be proud to have a camera named M13....

 

[mattcheol]

My M11 had freezing issues, corrupt DNG issues, crazy overexposure issues, subtle yet unlikable magenta cast to the photos, and a LCD screen that somehow developed bubble like smudges? 

I sold the dumb thing. I sometimes miss it, but mostly don't. I'll still buy the M11-P once/if these issues ever get corrected... thus why I'm still stalking this forum. 

[jjesp]

Instead of waiting for firmware releases coming and going for the rest of your M11 life time - why not just send your camera in for an exchange? Leica states that only very few M11 owners have this freezing problem. So then it can be solved by having a new camera send back to you. Simple! Do it before warranty is over. I simply wouldn't accept having a camera in this price range (or even a much cheaper price range), not working. I have learned my lesson since the same problem is on my old Q 116. Has been there from the beginning to this day. And I lost important images in the moment to many times.... I really regret not having my money back or having it replaced by Leica with a camera that works as you are entitled to. 

I am beginning to loose faith in Leica products. I even talked to a guy that now have had freezing and corrupt DNG files on his new SL3. Come on... I know every manufacturer has faulty items once in a while. They fix it or you get a new if they can't. All fine. But here we begin to see a pattern that is not good! Just wait for a new firmware, coming next month - or year.... It is not ok. If it is a bug in a new firmware version - you fix it in weeks. Not months or years - or never.... Think about it. How can we accept it?

[algrove]

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I often wonder if certain internal components are at the root of the problem. Heck like everyone Leica sources from all over the world. Perhaps part A does not play well with part B, etc.

Someone said their main board was corrupt and Leica NJ fixed it. Do not remember if that totally solved it.

[lct]

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Edited March 29, 2024 by lct

[algrove]

OK, understand.

[fotografr]

14 hours ago, mattcheol said:

My M11 had freezing issues, corrupt DNG issues, crazy overexposure issues, subtle yet unlikable magenta cast to the photos, and a LCD screen that somehow developed bubble like smudges? 

I sold the dumb thing. I sometimes miss it, but mostly don't. I'll still buy the M11-P once/if these issues ever get corrected... thus why I'm still stalking this forum. 

How were you able to sell a camera that had so many flaws?

[Jamie Roberts]

On 3/28/2024 at 5:23 PM, algrove said:

You got me thinking with your comments and frankly most of the time I like what the M11 produces. I only shoot and process RAW. Then again if it is always too magenta create a profile and use it all the time. 

In C1 I find I like M11 images. I stopped using LR years ago.

FWIW, and as a different data point, I guess, I took my M11P out today in the 2c weather (windy, too) and shot a couple of hundred shots outdoors in the afternoon, with WB fixed at 5600K, and included a couple of color checker shots. When I set the WB in C1, the neutrals in all the files *are* neutral (as in actually measuring across RGB channels within a digit or two--which is as good as any camera I've ever used). 

Edited March 30, 2024 by Jamie Roberts

[mattcheol]

5 hours ago, fotografr said:

How were you able to sell a camera that had so many flaws?

It's a valid question, and one I didn't think about until now. I reset the camera to factory settings before selling, and I truly hope the person who bought it from me has better luck than I did. I never even thought to disclose all the issues I had except for the cosmetic ones, and it was not out of ill conceived intent to dope an unsuspecting buyer... I honestly didn't even think to do so. Now, I wish I had because that is obviously the most fair thing to do. In Hindsight, it probably never even occurred to me because I felt/feel that my camera wasn't flawed per se, but was behaving like countless others with buggy firmware that needs to be fixed by Leica. 

[algrove]

9 hours ago, mattcheol said:

It's a valid question, and one I didn't think about until now. I reset the camera to factory settings before selling, and I truly hope the person who bought it from me has better luck than I did. I never even thought to disclose all the issues I had except for the cosmetic ones, and it was not out of ill conceived intent to dope an unsuspecting buyer... I honestly didn't even think to do so. Now, I wish I had because that is obviously the most fair thing to do. In Hindsight, it probably never even occurred to me because I felt/feel that my camera wasn't flawed per se, but was behaving like countless others with buggy firmware that needs to be fixed by Leica. 

Thanks for this bit of information. Now I know someone not to buy from.

[Malabito]

On 3/29/2024 at 8:50 AM, mattcheol said:

My M11 had freezing issues, corrupt DNG issues, crazy overexposure issues, subtle yet unlikable magenta cast to the photos, and a LCD screen that somehow developed bubble like smudges? 

I sold the dumb thing. I sometimes miss it, but mostly don't. I'll still buy the M11-P once/if these issues ever get corrected... thus why I'm still stalking this forum. 

I just saw your message below, not a very honest thing to do, i guess the risk comes with buying used.

 

Thats Why you can't really trust anyone when buying used.

Edited March 30, 2024 by Malabito

[algrove]

44 minutes ago, Malabito said:

I just saw your message below, not a very honest thing to do, i guess the risk comes with buying used.

 

Thats Why you can't really trust anyone when buying used.

You mean anyone!

[lct]

54 minutes ago, Malabito said:

[...]Thats Why you can't really trust anyone when buying used.

At least not individual sellers, some of them are unable to see the difference between right and wrong and can't even figure out that they could be sued for doing illegal things. No problem with professional sellers in my experience though.

[Malabito]

21 minutes ago, lct said:

At least not individual sellers, some of them are unable to see the difference between right and wrong and can't even figure out that they could be sued for doing illegal things. No problem with professional sellers in my experience though.

Sadly, so many people are dishonest. You can't really trust any individual, but at least when buying from a store, you have someone to complain to afterward.

The world is full of dishonest people, like the previous poster. He sold it because the camera had issues, and probably advertised it with in excelent conditions

[lct]

1 minute ago, Malabito said:

Sadly, so many people are dishonest.

This is often ignorance, believe this old lawyer. Easy to check when asking simple questions i used to ask my students like: what do you do if you find a banknote lying around? In this case i'm pretty sure the seller did not know that he had to disclose the defect he was aware of. I mean it it were a defect actually, which is not sure at all...

 

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[Malabito]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

This is often ignorance, believe this old lawyer. Easy to check when asking simple questions i used to ask my students like: what do you do if you find a banknote lying around? In this case i'm pretty sure the seller did not know that he had to disclose the defect he was aware of. I mean it it were a defect actually, which is not sure at all...

 

Hahah, ignorance? Not disclosing the main reason for which he was getting rid of the camera?

Sorry, but that's straight-through dishonesty and lying. If you think that's ignorance, perhaps you've done the same and just want to excuse yourself behind ignorance as well.

You can't compare this to finding an old note lying around. An appropriate comparison would be finding a wallet with the owner's ID, phone number, and using their credit cards.

[Smogg]

I'm not sure we should accuse anyone of being dishonest. A person bought an M11, used it, found a lot of bugs and was sure that this is generally inherent in any M11 camera and this is a failure of Leica with the new model. He decided for himself that the advantages of the new, but unsuccessful rangefinder did not outweigh the many bugs that the developers had equipped the camera with, and he sold the camera. What is dishonest or shameful here? He didn’t lie to the buyer, and the buyer, when buying an M11, could first study the item of purchase by Googling about the camera. We cannot know if a person was selling a defective camera, knowing that this was a feature of a particular sample

Edited March 30, 2024 by Smogg