How widespread is the ‘FREEZE’ problem!?

[Derbyshire Man]

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2 minutes ago, letitz said:

Who is hysterical? Why are you reading it like that in your head. I'm not the one with the freezing $10,000 leica. The one who should be hysterical is you. 

Calm down dear.

[RobW0]

4 hours ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Why've you just turned up with a pitchfork? What's your motivation with all of this? 36 rabble rousing hysterical posts? Laden with emotion and conjecture. Appreciate the gaslighters are a problem but your approach strikes me as just as wrong in the opposite direction. 

My guess is a new version of a previously banned user. 

[sebben]

21 hours ago, letitz said:

Who is hysterical? Why are you reading it like that in your head. I'm not the one with the freezing $10,000 leica. The one who should be hysterical is you. 

Your contribution is great though. It really answers how widespread the issue is. 

This forum harbours people that get very upset with anyone that says something critical of Leica products or holds Leica accountable for their very expensive goods. 
 

I believe that is important that Leica knows that some of their users actually do have expectations from Leica products and aren’t just cash cows to be milked for profit. It’s the only way the future products will improve if the grievances are known to Leica. Hopefully they listen…

[hjddd]

7 hours ago, sebben said:

这个论坛容纳了那些对任何批评徕卡产品或要求徕卡对其非常昂贵的商品负责的人感到非常不满的人。 
 

我认为重要的是，徕卡知道他们的一些用户确实对徕卡产品抱有期望，而不仅仅是为了利润而挤奶的摇钱树。如果徕卡知道这些不满，这是未来产品改进的唯一途径。希望他们能听……

yes someone always says and remind us in very thread that his cameras work fine… even if the weird  problems of M11 series are very well recognized by the users。 

[kiwidad]

On 4/2/2024 at 8:24 AM, hjddd said:

yes someone always says and remind us in very thread that his cameras work fine… even if the weird  problems of M11 series are very well recognized by the users。 

to clarify, "some users".....  without any real accounting of numbers affected and numbers sold this could either be a small problem or a large one. Does my M11 have quirks? Well yes but I have quirks too 🙂 I moderately share concerns but then every digital camera I ever owned has needed the battery pulled at somepoint. My perception based on the seeming lack of responsiveness from Leica is its a smaller drop in a large  bucket than the number responding here in the forums suggest.  

[DadDadDaddyo]

I was recalling from memory (admittedly patchy). I just looked: the pages I was referencing in the M11 manual are in the section entitled SAFETY REMARKS, specifically on Pages 8-10. There's a bunch of other stuff at the front of the manual worth checking out too. 

Can't say every goofy behavior I've ever tried with my Leica is specifically covered by a warning there, but it's kind of like...(thinks a moment) ... if the Safety Information on your drill says, "Don't try to drill through your hand," that doesn't mean you've got a claim with Black and Decker if you drill through your foot, and say, "They never warned me!"

I'm petty sure I can make almost anything malfunction with persistent action that's been shown to cause problems occasionally. I stand before you as living proof that when Man creates an idiot-proof device, Nature creates a better idiot.  My solution? Well, it helps to be a little careful. But even then....

"Doc, it hurts when I stub my toe!"

Doc says, "Walk more thoughtfully, man! Maybe look where your feet are going?"

"But Doc, then I banged my head!"

Doc says, "(sigh) Walk more thoughtfully,  man!"

Or,  

Student Woodworker: "Senpai, this piece doesn't fit!"

Master Woodworker: "Trim it then."

Student Woodworker: "I've tried that over and over, Senpai, and it's still too small!!"

Master Woodworker: "... (sigh) ..."

Edited April 7, 2024 by DadDadDaddyo

[IkarusJohn]

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I doubt the instruction manual says “Don’t use your camera in the bath”, but that isn’t the point is it?

People are getting corrupt files and freezes in normal use - or at least, in the way the camera is supposed to function.  Now, it may be that some feature may be disabled to solve the problem, new instructions issued (like format the card in SD Formatter, or don’t use SD cards at all), or firmware released that solves the problem (unlikely), but the problem remains that the problem isn’t caused by people doing something stupid.

Like possums trapped in the headlights …

 

[lct]

24 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

People are getting corrupt files and freezes in normal use - or at least, in the way the camera is supposed to function.  Now, it may be that some feature may be disabled to solve the problem, new instructions issued (like format the card in SD Formatter, or don’t use SD cards at all), or firmware released that solves the problem (unlikely), but the problem remains that the problem isn’t caused by people doing something stupid.

Not necessarily stupid but possibly erroneous. Just to take an example, some good people used to use uncoded lenses in auto detection mode some time ago. Stupid? Hardly so given that some of them were distinguished techies if i remember well 😄. Anyway, in a firmware update, Leica solved the issue by disabling the auto detection mode when an uncoded lens is mounted. Leica should have done that before the user errors are made, i guess, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone 😇

 

[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Not necessarily stupid but possibly erroneous. Just to take an example, some good people used to use uncoded lenses in auto detection mode some time ago. Stupid? Hardly so given that some of them were distinguished techies if i remember well 😄. Anyway, in a firmware update, Leica solved the issue by disabling the auto detection mode when an uncoded lens is mounted. Leica should have done that before the user errors are made, i guess, but let he who is without sin cast the first stone 😇

 

I’ve never understood the reason for “auto-detect” for lens coding.  With my M9, Monochrom & M10-D, if the lens isn’t coded, the camera simply applies the last manually selected code (great if you use only one uncoded lens).  With the M60, you couldn’t select lenses manually anyway.

From reading these threads, I’m not entirely convinced that the lens coding auto-detect is the culprit any more than any other part of the firmware - looks more like a random combination of “features” that simply overwhelms the processor when they all try to work toegther when the meatbag holding the camera tries to take a series of pictures.

[lct]

36 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

With my M9, Monochrom & M10-D, if the lens isn’t coded, the camera simply applies the last manually selected code (great if you use only one uncoded lens)

And not so great if you simply use 2 or 3 uncoded lenses. Good way to get a 35 recognized as a 135 or vice versa. The M11 has the same feature but most of my uncoded lenses are hand-coded hence recognized automatically by the camera

[IkarusJohn]

19 minutes ago, lct said:

And not so great if you simply use 2 or 3 uncoded lenses. Good way to get a 35 recognized as a 135 or vice versa. The M11 has the same feature but most of my uncoded lenses are hand-coded hence recognized automatically by the camera

Only if the coding is important to you, and you can’t/don’t/won’t code in post.

[lct]

14 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Only if the coding is important to you, and you can’t/don’t/won’t code in post.

If coding is of no interest to you, uncoded lenses will be recognized as such by the M11. Not that i try to sell you my M11, i know it is not a camera for you and my copy works too well to be sold.

[Mahesh]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:50 AM, Derbyshire Man said:

I'm not terrified, my M11-P does hang occasionally. That's not right and shouldn't be happening. I can live with it as long as a determination to fix it exists (I believe it does but wish to see more evidence of this). If it continues to be problematic I will seek redress via UK law which gives 6 years for expensive items. An £8k camera which as well documented fails to take photographs from time to time is going to be found in my favour (which I will publicise loudly if it gets to this point). Putting every effort into fixing this is reputationally vital for Leica.

I feel you should go for it now. They released M11 a while ago and if those problems are still there with M11-p and they issued the camera with that knowledge, it smells dishonesty to me.

[slippyphoto23]

As the author of the forum, I must admit that I bit the bullet last week as I got a great second hand deal on one.  The camera arrived immaculate.  No freezes yet after about 500 frames.  Using a Sandisk 128GB 2000x V90 SDXC card.  Firmware 2.0.2.

That said, as a professional I am abroad on a job this coming week, where it will likely do upwards of 2k frames (or at least thats the plan).  It's a fashion campaign for windows, so the 60MP res will be appreciated, and the Art Director loves the process of shooting it with Fotos (now with the added benefit of Live Tethered Preview).  

I have appreciated all the comments and experience of this thread.  I am happy with the camera so far, but will see how it performs on an actual job.  For what its worth, I'll report back how it performs.  

Many Thanks!

[fsprow]

16500 exposures on early M11 - no freezes or any other problems. 

[IkarusJohn]

5 hours ago, fsprow said:

16500 exposures on early M11 - no freezes or any other problems. 

So, either you’re using your camera in a specific way which doesn’t trigger a widely reported problem, or there is sgnificnt variability in the hardware.  Which do you think it is?

It would be useful to know how you use your camera.

[lct]

Funny that people using a normally working camera may be asked to explain how such normality is possible... This forum is becoming amazing these days...

[scott kirkpatrick]

I agree that this is a strange-sounding problem, but there are people who see freezes.  So asking them how they use the camera (particularly with respect to powering on and shooting quickly or shooting rapid single shots, which seem to be connected to freezes) is relevant.  I would only ask those who don't see freezes if they leave the camera on all day, letting it manage its powering down and back up.

[IkarusJohn]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

Funny that people using a normally working camera may be asked to explain how such normality is possible... This forum is becoming amazing these days...

Not really.  It would be useful.  What is “using a normal working camera”?  Or are you saying “move on, there’s no problem here” …

If, say, 10,000 M11 cameras are sold, and we get 5,000 posters saying “all good” how does that help? Or 9,000 or 1,000 …. We’ve learned a lot from Edax’s post on the other thread.  We might learn something from fsprow if we had more information.

I seem to recall that you’re happy with your M11.

Edited April 14, 2024 by IkarusJohn

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[lct]

2 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I agree that this is a strange-sounding problem, but there are people who see freezes.  So asking them how they use the camera (particularly with respect to powering on and shooting quickly or shooting rapid single shots, which seem to be connected to freezes) is relevant.  I would only ask those who don't see freezes if they leave the camera on all day, letting it manage its powering down and back up.

It is relevant to ask people suffering from freezes of course but the others can only confirm that their gear works normally. AFAIC my M11 is used the same way as my other bodies, switching off and on at will with no regularity.