Leica SL3 - IBIS only 5.0 EV

[Paul2660]

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On 3/8/2024 at 7:35 AM, Photoworks said:

just because Hasselblad has one up on that, it has many shortcomings in lens selection and video options.

You get what you get and you don't get upset!

LOL

you can also choose to spend the money a different way

One thing Leica has up on Hasselblad is the ability to ship lenses.  Currently, Hasselblad can't ship any of the newer V lenses, 38,55,90 and 28 and the older XCD lenses are also now pretty much out of stock.  Dates also keep slipping on the V lenses, now may to early June.  They have not shipped a new V lens in the US to any major supplier or dealer since Jan. 2024.  Total Screw up, it's hard to sell a X2D when you can't get a lens.  Leica SL glass is actually more expensive than most of of V or XCD lenses, but at least they can be purchased.  

 

Paul 

[Simone_DF]

26 minutes ago, algrove said:

Is this thread about a talk on the IBIS stop differential between the SL2 and SL3?

I think the point is that IBIS rating decreased in the newer model compared to the old one. Hopefully it won’t make a difference in real life but, in general, people expect an improvement from a newer model, not the other way around

[proenca]

5 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I think the point is that IBIS rating decreased in the newer model compared to the old one. Hopefully it won’t make a difference in real life but, in general, people expect an improvement from a newer model, not the other way around

I have a simple man theory for this - and please the technical enlighted people, do correct me.

I used the SL2 extensively ( and the SL before ) and have the SL3 since launch day.

In day to day use, I can clearly see a difference in the SL3 ibis, specially for video - to put this in layman terms, the SL3 ibis seems to be much better and corrected BUT cant correct for such sudden or extreme ( sort of ) movements.

example : I can now get super stable video IF I hold the camera with good discipline. for the life of me, I couldnt get a stable SL2 video in such manner. but if I move the camera too fast or bumpy too extreme, the ibis seems unable to correct it to a certain extent.

my take is : the ibis is improved and better, but has less "latitude" if any of this make sense.

[algrove]

16 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I think the point is that IBIS rating decreased in the newer model compared to the old one. Hopefully it won’t make a difference in real life but, in general, people expect an improvement from a newer model, not the other way around

Leica put in a new IBIS system and shutter for weight saving which by their explanation reduced IBIS from 5.5 in the SL2 to 5.0 in the SL3. I do not shoot video so that is another genre to me. But Leica does usually mean what they say about specs and others might not mean what they say about their specs if you get what I mean.

[PeterBoyadjian]

I find the SL3 IBIS better than the SL2S and comparable to my S5II. 

 

 

[Photoworks]

this is nothing special, but it is SL3 video with 90-280 at 280 from a boat 

 

[SrMi]

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6 hours ago, Paul2660 said:

Currently, Hasselblad can't ship any of the newer V lenses, 38,55,90 and 28

38 and 55 are in stock at Hasselblad online.

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, algrove said:

Leica put in a new IBIS system and shutter for weight saving which by their explanation reduced IBIS from 5.5 in the SL2 to 5.0 in the SL3. I do not shoot video so that is another genre to me. But Leica does usually mean what they say about specs and others might not mean what they say about their specs if you get what I mean.

IBIS and battery life are per CIPA standard measurement and not really related to real life usage.

[jaapv]

14 hours ago, PeterBoyadjian said:

I find the SL3 IBIS better than the SL2S and comparable to my S5II. 

 

 

It should be, but a high resolution sensor influences both IBIS and AF negatively to some extent, so the S5ii should be marginally better  

IS

[Hendo]

On 3/19/2024 at 9:51 PM, algrove said:

Is this thread about a talk on the IBIS stop differential between the SL2 and SL3?

I'd better spend my time shooting with my "only" 5 stop IBIS SL3 rather than reading this. Come on guys.

Algrove: Than why are you not shooting with your SL3 instead of reading this? 😊 IBIS can be the difference between a good image vs a failed one in certain circumstances. Usually the camera makers improve the functionality when a new model is released several years after the previous one. 

Edited March 28, 2024 by Hendo

[FlashGordonPhotography]

So far in my limited testing.

1. The gold standard for IBIS is still OM systems. Followed by the X2D. I would give the S5II third for the cameras I have (most of them) followed VERY closely by the SL3 and SL2.

2. I am unable to see a decernable difference between the SL3 and SL2 for stills shooting. I have not tested video. I believe the Nikon's do very well here with IBIS in video.

3. My A7R5 seems very slightly worse than the SL2/3 with a non-OIS lens. When dual IS is enabled they're both excellent to the point I can't really tell. With a non OIS 50 I get about 1/10 on the Sony reliably vs 1/8 or even 1/6 on the Leica. So only around half a stop. All Sony's before the A7R5 were MUCH worse. Sony's IBIS got a huge upgrade from that camera. Both these are easily bested by the X2D which is remarkable. 1/3rd of a second with the 55V is reliable and repeatable for me. Even longer with the 28P.

4. IBIS ratings need to be used in conjunction with other perameters. Camera weight and balance. Shutter type and shock. I think part of the reason the SL bodies do better than my Sony's is because they are heavier. The X2D shines party because it has a leaf shutter. You could use ES but all of these high res cameras are not great with any movement and ES so I think mechanical is more appropriate.

5. The SL cameras may see a small improvement if Leica would enable EFCS.

Gordon

[Hendo]

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

So far in my limited testing.

1. The gold standard for IBIS is still OM systems. Followed by the X2D. I would give the S5II third for the cameras I have (most of them) followed VERY closely by the SL3 and SL2.

2. I am unable to see a decernable difference between the SL3 and SL2 for stills shooting. I have not tested video. I believe the Nikon's do very well here with IBIS in video.

3. My A7R5 seems very slightly worse than the SL2/3 with a non-OIS lens. When dual IS is enabled they're both excellent to the point I can't really tell. With a non OIS 50 I get about 1/10 on the Sony reliably vs 1/8 or even 1/6 on the Leica. So only around half a stop. All Sony's before the A7R5 were MUCH worse. Sony's IBIS got a huge upgrade from that camera. Both these are easily bested by the X2D which is remarkable. 1/3rd of a second with the 55V is reliable and repeatable for me. Even longer with the 28P.

4. IBIS ratings need to be used in conjunction with other perameters. Camera weight and balance. Shutter type and shock. I think part of the reason the SL bodies do better than my Sony's is because they are heavier. The X2D shines party because it has a leaf shutter. You could use ES but all of these high res cameras are not great with any movement and ES so I think mechanical is more appropriate.

5. The SL cameras may see a small improvement if Leica would enable EFCS.

Gordon

Thanks, Gordon. Very well written. It seems as though the IBIS is certainly not worse in the SL3 compared to SL2 even though SL3 is 60 MPIX. I believe one reason for excellent IBIS in OM systems is their small sensor size.

[ColdShower]

I have the SL3 and shot on the SL2 before. The SL3 IBIS is excellent, Leica may have under promised and over deliver here. As good or perhaps better than on the SL2. I can cat walk with the camera and still get solid performance.

Pretty impressed. Way better stabilization than my Sony with up to 8 stops. Don’t let the specs hold you back. Use it and test it for yourself. It’s actually really good IMO 

I made a review with footage sample of you want to see it 

 

[pf4eva]

On 3/19/2024 at 9:29 PM, proenca said:

I have a simple man theory for this - and please the technical enlighted people, do correct me.

I used the SL2 extensively ( and the SL before ) and have the SL3 since launch day.

In day to day use, I can clearly see a difference in the SL3 ibis, specially for video - to put this in layman terms, the SL3 ibis seems to be much better and corrected BUT cant correct for such sudden or extreme ( sort of ) movements.

example : I can now get super stable video IF I hold the camera with good discipline. for the life of me, I couldnt get a stable SL2 video in such manner. but if I move the camera too fast or bumpy too extreme, the ibis seems unable to correct it to a certain extent.

my take is : the ibis is improved and better, but has less "latitude" if any of this make sense.

This is a result of them using a smaller body.

[Jon Warwick]

A more general question, but if SL3 has (let’s say) 5 stops of IBIS, is that benefit regardless of shutter speed? - ie, if shooting at 1/125 with IBIS, can one view it as using an effective shutter speed of 5-stops higher (I assume it’s based on a doubling here, so 125th to 250th to 500th to 1000th to 2000th to 4000th equivalent = 5 stops?). If that’s the case, apart from precise composition, is it generally the consensus that a tripod is completely redundant for reducing handheld blur in this type of scenario of day time shooting with IBIS switched on (assuming a normal focal length) - or are there still image quality benefits of a “traditional” use of tripod and having IBIS switched off?? Something makes me think there can’t be a free lunch in terms of image quality when shooting handheld with IBIS (vs bolting the camera to a tripod with IBIS off), but is that actually the case?

Edited August 8 by Jon Warwick

[jaapv]

It all depends on the focal length you will be using; over 70-100 mm approx it will be switched off, or if the SL3 has five-axis IBIS (I don't know) only rotational stabilization will be working, the other functions being taken over by OIS. And, as mentioned often, it won't work for subject motion blur. As for image quality, compered to tripod, it's hard to say. It depends on the initial stability (or lack thereof) of the camera and the sturdiness and vibration damping of the tripod.