The Leica SL3 - A Review by Jonathan Slack

[rgacpa]

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Nicely done as usual!

Did you find a cable release that will work with the SL3? I noticed in the manual there is a USB-C type slot labeled "remote release" (pg. 28, #38) but AFAIK only the S 601 had this type of cable end? And would it work here?

Seems to be a pretty major oversight; a bit like the new Hassy...

[hdmesa]

12 hours ago, elmars said:

I think in a video of the London Leica Store this was explained with a slightly different cover glass in front of the sensor.

That seems odd since many Nikons have base ISO 64, and they have thicker cover glass compared to the M11. Maybe Leica wanted to start at ISO 100 so that the dual gain boost happens in at a higher ISO for video/low light benefit.

[hdmesa]

18 hours ago, erudolph said:

It was discussed on the Red Dot Forum Camera Talk Live episode the night of the SL3 launch. 

Yeah, but "cover glass and new processor" as the reasons for base ISO 100 instead of 64 doesn't make sense unless I'm missing something about sensor design. I think something was lost in translation as it makes more sense if referencing the new processor to say something like, "We made base ISO 100 since with the new processor we could achieve the same dynamic range as we could with the M11 at ISO 64." The cover glass reference I still find perplexing, though. That should have nothing to do with a sensor's base ISO, but maybe someone can explain the connection.

Edited March 10, 2024 by hdmesa

[2M6TTLs]

12 hours ago, eab said:

I don’t think it will go away either.  I think, it is a means to have greater control over the state of the camera.  You can put it in “standby” mode or fully turn the unit off with a single switch.  The previous solution  was either on or off and you would wait ( user defined period in the menu) for the unit to go into “standby”.  Normally I prefer a nice tactile on-off switch, but this implementation adds value and it seems to work well. 

With regards to the phone, I rarely use the app, but I am going to see what it offers.  The good news is, you can use it to easily upgrade your firmware and only use it for that purpose, or use it for more.  I will say it is the best app I have ever used with any camera. It seems to work well for Geo-tagging as well.    

I have been mostly shooting an M and Sony gear but hoping the sony gear can go to the wayside.  I find the SL3 handles noise better ( nearly the same sensor but the processing is obviously different ) and the ergonomics are much better from my perspective……

Interesting. I might like to in use the app to "easily update my firmware" if that is the case, so I'll investigate it, if only for that purpose alone. Sounds like it does work well from what I'm reading here on the forums. Can't hurt to play around with it.

[2M6TTLs]

11 hours ago, Virob said:

Thanks for the review. I’m glad I wasn’t waiting for this upgrade, I’m still very happy with the SL2, but curious of course to see where the SL system is going. For the most part it looks like a nice upgrade with some areas that disappoint. It is clear that best still image quality is the priority, hence this 60mpix sensor. The sensor is showing its age with slow readout and what that implies, but there aren’t a lot of alternative options, so Leica didn’t have much choice here. It does make one consider how this camera will be viewed in 4 + years from now when its replacement is do. 

I’m a little surprised by people’s complaints about AF and frame rates. What was the expectation? This is their first foray into PDAF. Give that some time to mature and catch up to the competition, I expect we will see AF software updates. 

The poor battery life plus no charger is a problem. If they aren’t going to ship a charger with the camera, then at least a second battery. Battery life is a consideration for me. I’m often away from mains power and rely on a combination of power packs and solar panels for charging having both a battery charger, and in camera charging going on at the same time. This is an area they are clearly behind.

What does disturb me a bit is lack of software features like multi shot, focus stacking, ND filters, HDR, stitching etc, things people have been asking for. Instead, a great deal of effort have gone into icon redesign. I’m not knocking it, looks great, but I think if you were to ask, most people wouldn’t have that as a top priority vs some of those other features when it comes to software development.

with all that said, when these start to show up on the used market and a good deal comes my way, I will definitely consider it.

Yes, different people have different priorities. I think the SL series cameras ( any of them really) handle beautifully in the field but what I always feel disappointed about is the battery life. That's a top priority in any device that is dead in the water without power. I'm also good with the new Leicons  but am much, much more interested in a longer battery life since I take my cameras in remote areas, mountains etc. I wish Leica could do more with that aspect of the camera. Also prefer a mains charger as I don't always travel with a computer so why do I have to depend on a USB-C cable connection? They SHOULD include a charger in the box. We are not paying peanuts for these cameras. They have already cut out the manual which now has to be ordered. Yes, I know i can read it online but I won't be doing this when I'm out there in the wild. Some of us are out there with just a backpack our cameras, no computer and no car. That means, totally dependent on the batteries we can carry with us all day. Again, about those Leicons... does Leica include a cheat sheet with the SL3 so we know what they mean? Are they all intuitive?

[_Alex_]

Thanks for the review, Jono. Thanks for all the reviews. I find them insightful and useful. I'm a little perplexed by the SL-3, but I am very curious about it. I'll have to get my hands on one to try out. 

[londond]

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5 hours ago, 2M6TTLs said:

Interesting. I might like to in use the app to "easily update my firmware" if that is the case, so I'll investigate it, if only for that purpose alone. Sounds like it does work well from what I'm reading here on the forums. Can't hurt to play around with it.

Had a slightly panicky moment updating the firmware via Leica Fotos - SL3 got stuck with Leica logo on screen and no amount of pressing the unfamiliar on/off or anything else did anything.  Something had gone wrong compared to Fotos firmware update on M11s/Q2 and all the user guide says is whatever you do, don’t interrupt the power supply.  So left it 30 mins before popping out the battery….so in my case it was more use the app to “stressfully update my firmware”.

btw thanks Jono for the as ever balanced and informative review.

 

 

[anickpick]

Am 7.3.2024 um 15:05 schrieb jonoslack:

 

Hello Jono,
Thank you very much for your detailed review.
May I ask you a question about the viewfinder? When zooming in with the SL2, the image became a bit smudgy when using fast M lenses. 
This had been much better with the original SL and also with the SL2-S. 
Can you comment on this in relation to the SL3?
Many thanks,
Robin
 

[Stuart Richardson]

Thank you for the very helpful review Jono! I had my hands on the SL3 in London for just a moment, and perhaps because of several years with the SL2 in my hand, it felt like a change...unfortunately for me, a not so welcome one. I will note that I had the opposite impression when switching from the SL to the SL2. That felt immediately like an improvement. I recognize that you overcame most of your grumpy reactions after some time. I think that is all well and good, but I do think it is worth noting that you were given this camera for testing. It takes a special kind of Leica lover (or maybe Leica truster?) to swap out a camera for one where the initial few weeks of impressions are negative. I am sympathetic to the people who worked on this camera. I am sure that their level of professionalism and skill are far greater than anything I have ever exhibited. I am less willing to let Leica off the hook as a whole. They had their most profitable year in history this year, and their recent launches have been seemingly full of glitches, bugs and features that seem to land flat with customers. This is combined with the absolutely abysmal service times which have plagued the company for years.

Leica has not convinced me with this camera. Here are some reasons that go beyond the spec sheet alone:

1. The power switch is a strange choice and a huge downgrade for me. The antithesis of their corporate philosophy of das Wesentliche. It went from a simple, tactile and binary switch to one that has no tactile impression and requires active thought (mental counting to do the right action) rather than muscle memory or instinct. My sense is that the light was added not only for functionality (charging?) but because it was much harder to find the button in the dark. As someone in the great north who is in gloves most of the year, this also looks like a step backward from the extremely well thought out and ergonomic design trend that Leica initiated with the S2. I think it is quite telling that you do not see a lot of other cameras going this route...there is a reason.

2. The smaller body felt cramped to me and less well balanced than the SL2. I also think the design itself is significantly less attractive as an object. Laugh as some might, I would like to enjoy look of the camera as well, and the design is noticeable busier and less attractive, given the bulky rear screen, odd timecode port and an additional left side top dial that is disproportionate to the space available at that side of the camera. The camera is also shorter and fatter. Something which I can say with experience is not the way to win over too many suitors.

3. The new icons and interface are to me at least, less legible and visually distinct. Just tiny things...like the drive mode icon is no longer a perfect rectangle, it is more square and has rounded corners. I know this is nitpicky, but I think it is more difficult to read and less distinct in use. I fear they are going the Apple route of endlessly tweaking for the sake of tweaking, rather than realizing that they had already perfected it. The SL2/S had black bars behind the icons and they were clear and distinct, easily legible. The SL3 has gone transparent, which may be nice for immersiveness, but it is at the expense of legibility.  I am not sure if it is possible to turn off the rotation of the interface on portrait mode. If not, I hope they implement it in firmware. Count me out. It makes me miss the actual physical information bar on the R9 and S cameras. This was the area I had hoped most for customization: to be able to deselect some of the information on the viewfinder while shooting. There are basically three choices: No information at all, a little too much information and information overload. I would love to turn off some of those icons, such as for wifi and bluetooth connection, flash curtain, DNG/JPG selection and style etc. I just want the bottom bar with the mode, ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and ev compensation. The rest is less important for me. I realize that everyone has their own taste here, but that is why I think the customization would be nice.

Anyway, I have already gone on too long. I think my main impression has been "wait, why did they do this?" "oh no!! I loved that!" and "really? 5 years and this is what they came up with?". I am indeed a grumpy old(ish) man, but it is hard for me to get excited about this camera at all. In fact it does the opposite...fills me with fear for what direction Leica might be headed to after this.

Edited March 10, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[Smogg]

9 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Thank you for the very helpful review Jono! I had my hands on the SL3 in London for just a moment, and perhaps because of several years with the SL2 in my hand, it felt like a change...unfortunately for me, a not so welcome one. I will note that I had the opposite impression when switching from the SL to the SL2. That felt immediately like an improvement. I recognize that you overcame most of your grumpy reactions after some time. I think that is all well and good, but I do think it is worth noting that you were given this camera for testing. It takes a special kind of Leica lover (or maybe Leica truster?) to swap out a camera for one where the initial few weeks of impressions are negative. I am sympathetic to the people who worked on this camera. I am sure that their level of professionalism and skill are far greater than anything I have ever exhibited. I am less willing to let Leica off the hook as a whole. They had their most profitable year in history this year, and their recent launches have been seemingly full of glitches, bugs and features that seem to land flat with customers. This is combined with the absolutely abysmal service times which have plagued the company for years.

Leica has not convinced me with this camera. Here are some reasons that go beyond the spec sheet alone:

1. The power switch is a strange choice and a huge downgrade for me. The antithesis of their corporate philosophy of das Wesentliche. It went from a simple, tactile and binary switch to one that has no tactile impression and requires active thought (mental counting to do the right action) rather than muscle memory or instinct. My sense is that the light was added not only for functionality (charging?) but because it was much harder to find the button in the dark. As someone in the great north who is in gloves most of the year, this also looks like a step backward from the extremely well thought out and ergonomic design trend that Leica initiated with the S2. I think it is quite telling that you do not see a lot of other cameras going this route...there is a reason.

2. The smaller body felt cramped to me and less well balanced than the SL2. I also think the design itself is significantly less attractive as an object. Laugh as some might, I would like to enjoy look of the camera as well, and the design is noticeable busier and less attractive, given the bulky rear screen, odd timecode port and an additional left side top dial that is disproportionate to the space available at that side of the camera. The camera is also shorter and fatter. Something which I can say with experience is not the way to win over too many suitors.

3. The new icons and interface are to me at least, less legible and visually distinct. Just tiny things...like the drive mode icon is no longer a perfect rectangle, it is more square and has rounded corners. I know this is nitpicky, but I think it is more difficult to read and less distinct in use. I fear they are going the Apple route of endlessly tweaking for the sake of tweaking, rather than realizing that they had already perfected it. The SL2/S had black bars behind the icons and they were clear and distinct, easily legible. The SL3 has gone transparent, which may be nice for immersiveness, but it is at the expense of legibility.  I am not sure if it is possible to turn off the rotation of the interface on portrait mode. If not, I hope they implement it in firmware. Count me out. It makes me miss the actual physical information bar on the R9 and S cameras. This was the area I had hoped most of customization: to be able to deselect some of the information on the viewfinder while shooting. There are basically three choices: No information at all, a little too much information and information overload. I would love to turn off some of those icons, such as for wifi and bluetooth connection, flash curtain, DNG/JPG selection and style etc. I just want the bottom bar with the mode, ISO, aperture, shutter speed, and ev compensation. The rest is less important for me. I realize that everyone has their own taste here, but that is why I think the customization would be nice.

Anyway, I have already gone on too long. I think my main impression has been "wait, why did they do this?" "oh no!! I loved that!" and "really? 5 years and this is what they came up with?". I am indeed a grumpy old(ish) man, but it is hard for me to get excited about this camera at all. In fact it does the opposite...fills me with fear for what direction Leica might be headed to after this.

Thank you for expressing my thoughts perfectly, and much better than I could have done myself.😂

[Smogg]

After reading the SL3 reviews, I realized how much I love my X2D😂 The most frequently used cameras I had were two M11s before the problematic firmware. When I wanted super color, I used X2D. When I need speed and instant, tenacious autofocus - Sony A7rv. It was Sony that I planned to replace with SL3 because of my dislike for the Sony interface and grip. But after the reviews it turns out that SL3 falls more into the X2D category, and the clear favorite for me is X2D

[Chris Nebard]

7 minutes ago, Smogg said:

After reading the SL3 reviews, I realized how much I love my X2D😂 The most frequently used cameras I had were two M11s before the problematic firmware. When I wanted super color, I used X2D. When I need speed and instant, tenacious autofocus - Sony A7rv. It was Sony that I planned to replace with SL3 because of my dislike for the Sony interface and grip. But after the reviews it turns out that SL3 falls more into the X2D category, and the clear favorite for me is X2D

Ha! So true; the ‘damned by faint praise’ SL3 reviews have made me appreciate my SL2-S even more - it’s rapidly becoming a Leica classic 😆. And I do envy you having the X2D, it looks superb. 

[Stuart Richardson]

This is a screenshot from the KaiW youtube review to demonstrate what I mean about the icons. I know that they will be a bit more visible in person, as it is slightly overexposed, but my point stands. A camera interface should be about clarity and immediacy to enable quick and sure responses. This is the exact opposite...trying to figure out what is visible. It is helpful that this is video mode because it shows the difference. In photo mode both lines are transparent. Please note that I did handle the camera in person, so I am not just going by this video.

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Edited March 10, 2024 by Stuart Richardson

[la1402]

I belong to the not so few who found the SL2 too big, it’s AF atrocious and the high ISO behaviour unpleasant. After using the SL3 for a while in the shop, i think it may have fixed these issues just well enough to be interesting. I also quite like the changes to the UI. Still, there are some weird developments and I am not convinced yet it will be able to replace my A7R5 (which it would have to). My dealer expects testing units so I will await the opportunity to experience it in more depth before splashing out so much money.

[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, 2M6TTLs said:

They have already cut out the manual which now has to be ordered. Yes, I know i can read it online but I won't be doing this when I'm out there in the wild.

I think some have mentioned that the printed manual is included this time, unless I misunderstood.

Jeff

Edited March 10, 2024 by Jeff S

[huwm]

I had a 'turn' with the SL3 in store then picked up an SL2 almost immediately after. I didn't notice it being any bigger and heavier, just more pleasant to my eye and hand.

Will stick with my SL2S 

[londond]

48 minutes ago, huwm said:

I had a 'turn' with the SL3 in store then picked up an SL2 almost immediately after. I didn't notice it being any bigger and heavier, just more pleasant to my eye and hand.

Will stick with my SL2S 

Each to their own…I hadn’t really planned to get an SL3.  Had gone to the store to get a M lens now out of stock potentially for months.  Found the SL3 pleasing to the eye and hand, with an APO prime well balanced, compact but solid. This prompted me to trade my SL2 + deferred lens budget for the sensor + AF.  In truth hard to justify that equation in economic terms but tbh that’s Leica... 

Take Stuarts point about the display text/icons lacking the boldness of the SL2 and agree functionally that’s not so good.  But also adds to the slightly slimmed down vibe which clearly will appeal to some and not others.  It’s all a bit less brutalist.  When you change info profiles the info bars scroll in and out (can’t recall, but did they more pop in SL2?). Not sure if the rounded corners are in the same vein.

Getting used to the camera will engender some of the grumpiness Jono notes, but a day playing suggests that for me that will be just like a new  Mac OS release.  I really like the configurability (e.g. the Control Centre) and putting ISO on the new left  dial better emulates M.   Feels to me like a camera I will enjoy using…

 

 

[Eclectic Man]

On 3/9/2024 at 1:35 PM, jonoslack said:

Did you enjoy it?

I enjoyed your review, and the photographs you took, (although I have to say I expect you take very fine photographs with whatever equipment you use).  But the comments are not all, 'enlightening'.

I would be interested to know if you used the sensor cleaning function, and whether the shutter can be closed when changing lenses.   But £5920 is beyond my budget at the moment, even if I did sell my SL2.

Edit: Oh, and does the manual cover the whole camera this time?  The SL2 manual omitted the connections on the left hand side.

Edited March 10, 2024 by Eclectic Man

[CptSlevin]

AFc on the 1.30 and almost for all the footage of the talking head is unreliable at best.
Still hunting
 

Edited March 10, 2024 by CptSlevin

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[pf4eva]

12 minutes ago, CptSlevin said:

AFc on the 1.30 and almost for all the footage of the talking head is unreliable at best.
Still hunting
 

Looks pretty similar to S5II, but slower, which is expected since sensor readout i guess is much slower. Unfortunate this 1st gen panasonic PDAF (s5ii and SL3) is not great i hope they'll improve it with FW, but I don't normally rely on hope.