Leica I or Russian copy?

[Enrico Annibale Ruggeri]

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From private collection I found this camera:

Sn 0057040 (year 1930)

Lens Sn 253163  (year 1935)

the leather case is made in Moscow.

Is a Russian copy or only the case is Russian?

There are green vax signs on various part of the camera.

 

Thank you for answering

 

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Edited March 4, 2024 by Enrico Annibale Ruggeri

[wirthual]

Russian copy

[dpitt]

High score on all signs for fakes...

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-213.html

 

Edited March 4, 2024 by dpitt

[pgk]

Is that covering actually Fablon? Was it by Valerie Singleton?

[spydrxx]

SCREAMING FAKE

[dg4mgr]

vor 53 Minuten schrieb dpitt:

High score on all signs for fakes...

Yes, and even one extra: Leicas don't have leading zeros in the serial number

[willeica]

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Obvious Soviet copy/fake of a II Model D. For the final confirmation, take the lens off and see if the rangefinder cam looks like this. I call this the 'Banjo or Balalaika Test'. Normally, if it is round, it might  be a Leica, but not in this case as it is so obviously a copy/fake with all of the other indicators. If it is shaped like this it is definitely a Soviet copy/fake.

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Just for future reference, a copy is camera that is made to a similar design to a Leica e.g the 'precious and over-priced' British Reids. A fake is a camera which calls itself a Leica when it is not.  I enclose an article which I wrote about this some years ago.

William 

[250swb]

As I scrolled down I squinted at the first photo then fell off my chair laughing at seeing the second. 

[willeica]

55 minutes ago, 250swb said:

As I scrolled down I squinted at the first photo then fell off my chair laughing at seeing the second. 

There is a wide ranging narrative here. One of the most 'amusing' things was that when the Allies cancelled Axis patents, one of the biggest beneficiaries of that was one of those Axis powers, which ultimately gave rise to the decline and fall of the US, British and European camera industries, through creating strong camera industry entities in Japan. What comes around, goes around etc. Strangely enough, Leica is one of the very few pre-existing companies which survived. The story is much bigger than obvious fakes popping up here every now and then. 

William 

[TomB_tx]

Another narrative is how the Allied occupation government pushed the Japanese to transition manufacturing to exportable consumer products to pay off the war and reconstruction costs, and cameras were a big part of that effort. I recall in the early 1950s the only Japanese products I saw were a flood of cheap toys and trinkets in the "5 & 10 cent" stores.
Remember even into the 1960s-70s European camera makers laughed at the idea the Japanese could produce anything really competitive to them. Then companies like Leitz, Rollei, Zeiss began partnerships with Japanese companies to share design & manufacturing to try and survive the competitive market. Even in the early 1950s people recognized that the Canon RF cameras were at least equal quality to Leica. The patent issue just gave them an opening - their efforts and expertise made them a success.

Same thing happened with the motorcycle and automotive industries, where the early Japanese efforts were laughed at, but they kept improving.

Now we are watching the progress made by Chinese lens makers...

[Anbaric]

5 hours ago, pgk said:

Is that covering actually Fablon? Was it by Valerie Singleton?

You can't say that word! It's Sticky Backed Plastic!

[Anbaric]

The original FEDs and Zorkis are really interesting, and some of the finer and more fanciful fakes they have been turned into are attractive in a kitschy way, but this one looks like it was modified in someone's garage with an acid bath and a Dremel.

[willeica]

14 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

Another narrative is how the Allied occupation government pushed the Japanese to transition manufacturing to exportable consumer products to pay off the war and reconstruction costs, and cameras were a big part of that effort. I recall in the early 1950s the only Japanese products I saw were a flood of cheap toys and trinkets in the "5 & 10 cent" stores.
Remember even into the 1960s-70s European camera makers laughed at the idea the Japanese could produce anything really competitive to them. Then companies like Leitz, Rollei, Zeiss began partnerships with Japanese companies to share design & manufacturing to try and survive the competitive market. Even in the early 1950s people recognized that the Canon RF cameras were at least equal quality to Leica. The patent issue just gave them an opening - their efforts and expertise made them a success.

Same thing happened with the motorcycle and automotive industries, where the early Japanese efforts were laughed at, but they kept improving.

Now we are watching the progress made by Chinese lens makers...

Thanks, Tom. You have given a lot more detail. I remember when something made in Japan would have been regarded as cheap and nasty, but around the 1960s or 70s all of that changed forever. Made in Japan is now a symbol of quality. Germany always had that, of course.

William 
 

 

[pgk]

13 hours ago, Anbaric said:

The original FEDs and Zorkis are really interesting, and some of the finer and more fanciful fakes they have been turned into are attractive in a kitschy way, but this one looks like it was modified in someone's garage with an acid bath and a Dremel.

Can we ask AI to produce a video of Valerie making a fake Leica using an acid bath, Dremel and sticky backed plastic?

[Anbaric]

30 minutes ago, pgk said:

Can we ask AI to produce a video of Valerie making a fake Leica using an acid bath, Dremel and sticky backed plastic?

'...and here's one we made earlier'.

Best not to mention the acid bath, or viewers may start to join the dots about what really happened to the original Petra...

[pgk]

10 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

'...and here's one we made earlier'.

Best not to mention the acid bath, or viewers may start to join the dots about what really happened to the original Petra...

😶 I'll say nothing.

[Pyrogallol]

Petrified?

[Anbaric]

6 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

Petrified?

Still, could have been worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mVvRluNJpM