Why... do I have such a fear of cleaning the sensor...

[lct]

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I mostly use a VisibleDust Zeeion bulb blower personally. Works so well that i haven't had to clean the sensor on my M11 since May 2022. I live in a dust-free environment, though.

[dpitt]

I can imagine gel sticks and cleaning IBIS sensors do not go well together. They can possible throw off the fragile IS mechanism.

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, lct said:

I mostly use a VisibleDust Zeeion bulb blower personally. Works so well that i haven't had to clean the sensor on my M11 since May 2022. I live in a dust-free environment, though.

I advise you to give the sensor a wet clean nonetheless unless you live very far away from industry and diesel cars it will improve contrast and clarity. 

[lct]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

I advise you to give the sensor a wet clean nonetheless unless you live very far away from industry and diesel cars it will improve contrast and clarity. 

Thank you but i don't touch Sony sensors any more. I will take it in for cleaning if images become too dirty.

[jaapv]

Do take it in at least once year even if there is no dust. The pollution layer that has built up from the air is only noticeable by its absence. 

[jaapv]

On 2/13/2024 at 11:46 PM, LBJ2 said:

What works for me if the blower doesn't do it:

1. Eyelead Sensor Cleaning Stick Kit for Leica or the Pentax Stick( this usually does it but you must use the sticky pads to clean the stick before, during and after) 

2. LED torch so you can see before, during and after ( see step #3) 

3. Only dab the spots with the Stick--not the entire sensor. *Very important to roll the cleaning stick to an angle/tilt and then pull up gently after the dab ( as mentioned by @evikne)

*Wet clean as a last resort and again only wet clean the spots, don't clean the entire sensor back and forth as many suggest 

**If you do need wet clean after the above, try a very few drops of Isopropyl Alcohol 99.9% on a small swab, it evaporates immediately. Most other solutions contain too much water which might add more stains/streaks/spots after cleaning

***I use very small sensor swabs for wet cleaning not APSC or FF size swabs and I only clean the spots--never the entire sensor or areas of the sensor that don't have spots 

**** Work carefully and gently, clean working space and use the LED often so you know exactly what to clean and what not to clean 

****Any sort of brush/butterfly used to clean a wet spot on the cover glass should be brand new and one time application only. Otherwise it just smears whatever from the previous cleaning 

And finally, the above at your own risk of course. But once you get the hang of it, one of the above can go pretty quickly, but never force or apply too much pressure or liquid. 

As a matter of interest, what is the rationale behind such an elaborate dabbing of the sensor instead of swiping it as recommended by the makers of sensor cleaning fluid?  It obviates the need for frequent LED inspection too. I have done my cleaning under a surgical microscope and it turns out that half the dust during cleaning is organic matter like micro flake of skin, small pieces of eyelash hair, little droplets of sweat, etc, which originate from hanging over the sensor when inspecting and cleaning it. 

[Jeff S]

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4 minutes ago, jaapv said:

As a matter of interest, what is the rationale behind such an elaborate dabbing of the sensor instead of swiping it as recommended by the makers of sensor cleaning fluid?  It obviates the need for frequent LED inspection too. I have done my cleaning under a surgical microscope and it turns out that half the dust during cleaning is organic matter like micro flake of skin, small pieces of eyelash hair, little droplets of sweat, etc, which originate from hanging over the sensor when inspecting and cleaning it. 

You don’t use a sterile head and face cover with eye cut-outs when performing this procedure?

Jeff

[jaapv]

Not me. I just swab it and avoid hanging over the camera when doing so. I looked at the sensor this way years ago. Just out of interest. 

[LBJ2]

10 hours ago, jaapv said:

As a matter of interest, what is the rationale behind such an elaborate dabbing of the sensor instead of swiping it as recommended by the makers of sensor cleaning fluid?  It obviates the need for frequent LED inspection too. I have done my cleaning under a surgical microscope and it turns out that half the dust during cleaning is organic matter like micro flake of skin, small pieces of eyelash hair, little droplets of sweat, etc, which originate from hanging over the sensor when inspecting and cleaning it. 

" I have done my cleaning under a surgical microscope" This is an interesting statement. If one doesn't have OCD beforehand, this method would be sure to induce an episode! Ha Ha 

A blower should blow off much of what you describe and what we can see with an LED, but not always which is why the dab sticks are so effective. 

Nothing elaborate is suggested in dabbing-out the typical few visible spots only. My rationale from my experience:

IMO why take a chance on cleaning the whole sensor cover area and risk dragging smear and debris from the few spots we do see to the other areas in the sensor cover glass which usually results in repeated cleanings required. Due to the shape of the cover glass there are sides and corners not so easily cleaned if you drag liquid and debris into those areas unintentionally. Besides if these spots are really stubborn/sticky one swipe in both directions usually doesn't do it in my experience any way. 

Brand specific Eyelead or the Petax sticks can be very effective in this regard. Minimal time in and out, no worry of liquid. But the sticks must be brand specific, cleaned before during and after and used gently as already described. If the dab stick leaves residue, then the stick or hands might not have been cleaned properly before use. And of course fresh sticky pads are a requirement too and should not be reused. 

I've also found cleaning the lens mount on the camera and lenses regularly, particularly when you buy a new lens right out of the box with something like a Zeiss wipe also helps keep the sensor cover clean longer. 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, LBJ2 said:

IMO why take a chance on cleaning the whole sensor cover area and risk dragging smear and debris from the few spots we do see to the other areas in the sensor cover glass which usually results in repeated cleanings required. Due to the shape of the cover glass there are sides and corners not so easily cleaned if you drag liquid and debris into those areas unintentionally. Besides if these spots are really stubborn/sticky one swipe in both directions usually doesn't do it in my experience any way

Well, I like to know what I am doing, so I did indeed look through my microscope a couple of times, years ago.

1. I never experienced the problems you describe in 20 years of sensor cleaning. It is just a matter of applying a simple technique properly. If you cannot remove in one swipe you are using the wrong fluid. In that case I recommend Smear Away from Visible Dust. It certainly is better than looking - dabbing - looking - dabbing and fiddling around. 

2. You will never remove the haze from air pollution that way. Not a problem for a few months or even a year (depending on the air quality where you live) but it does build up. Especially in areas where there is a lot of fine dust in the air - industrial areas, near beach and sea, etc, or Diesel vehicles.

[overexposed]

i usually have only light dust spots on my sensor.

when, one time, i didnt have liquid anymore, i used a sensor swab without any liquid and it worked very very well.

i couldnt see any scratches even under a magnifying glass.

these protection glasses are by far not as sensitive as they used to be.

i clean my digital backs the same way. no issue whatsoever

[FlickM]

On 2/13/2024 at 1:17 PM, jaapv said:

(just ask your wife about her windows.) 

Did you actually just say that in 2024???

[jaapv]

Yes - as I clean them. After strong pressure to do so. 

[fotografr]

I've told this story before, but it's been quite a while so it's worth telling again for those who fear touching the sensor. Many years ago I had my first M8. The sensor had dust so I decided to clean it. One recommended product was a stick with a rectangular end and some adhesive patches. One side of the patch had a very sticky adhesive that was supposed to attach to the rectangular end of the stick. The other side had a mild adhesive that was designed to touch to the sensor similar to the way Eyelead works.

I got everything laid out on my desk and was ready to begin the process when I was interrupted by a phone call from a client. The call ended and I resumed, but I inadvertently reversed the pad. As a result, when I put it on the sensor, it stuck hard. I immediately realized what I'd done and was horrified. I had to remove the pad by pulling up one corner and carefully peeling it off. Then the real problem was revealed. The sensor was covered with a sticky residue. I tried to remove it with a wet cleaner and all that did was spread it around more. After unsuccessfully trying everything I could think of, I went off to the camera store to look for other solutions. The only thing I could find that I hadn't tried was something called Lens Pen, which was a devise shaped like a pen but with a triangular soft pad on one end. I opened the camera shutter again and started using the Lens Pen and some of the residue started to come off, but it was still pretty bad. Finally, I accepted that I'd have to replace the sensor, so I might as well just have at it. I started pushing the pen with extreme pressure, waiting for the crack that never came. Finally, after going over the sensor repeatedly and using lots of pressure, the sensor was free of residue and completely undamaged--perfectly clean and good as new. This totally cured my fear of damaging the sensor by cleaning it.

Perhaps the glass cover used on the M8 was much stronger than what's used now--I really don't know. But with basic carefulness, anybody should be able to clean the sensor themself rather than paying a camera store employee to do it in five minutes and charge $100 for it. 

[dpitt]

12 hours ago, fotografr said:

Perhaps the glass cover used on the M8 was much stronger than what's used now--I really don't know. But with basic carefulness, anybody should be able to clean the sensor themself rather than paying a camera store employee to do it in five minutes and charge $100 for it. 

I do not think so. Experts may correct this, but in an attempt to improve performance for wide lenses Leica overdid it and made the filter stack too thin, resulting in the well known IR sensitivity issue. So if anything, later sensors should be more robust than the M8.

I heard that sensors with IBIS are much more fragile because of the mechanism for IS.

Edited February 28, 2024 by dpitt

[jaapv]

Leica certainly did not overdo it,witness the residual problems that required an extra IR filter on the lens and digital corrections for vignette in the firmware. Actually the IR problem still persists today, albeit in a considerably mitigated way. 

[dpitt]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Leica certainly did not overdo it,witness the residual problems that required an extra IR filter on the lens and digital corrections for vignette in the firmware. Actually the IR problem still persists today, albeit in a considerably mitigated way. 

@jaapv That is exactly what I wanted to say. In their eagerness for sharpness and performance Leica overlooked this IR effect. Leica should have known better than make the M8 this IR sensitive. I can still not understand how the beta testers did not complain about black coats turning purple for example...
I always use UV/IR on my M8 for color.

Edited February 28, 2024 by dpitt

[jaapv]

The limited beta testing was then done in a period of rather dull weather and Germans rarely wear synthetic black clothes. There was very little if any beta testing done as Leica had to fend off bankruptcy which was very close, in fact they should have failed before the M8 was developed. The Kaufmann  bailout was a close run last minute thing. Actually the IR issue was the reason that Leica claimed a digital M was not possible without technological advances, which they were much maligned about.  The M8 was the only way that the company could be saved. 

[lct]

The M8 has one of the thinner if not the thinnest sensor stack IIRC. I will never use a sticky accessory on my M8.2's after having broken a Sony's with a LensPen but it's me.

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[jaapv]

I only cleaned my M8 by swabbing, the gel thingies were uncommon back then, but my M9 sensors have survived Eyelead for Sony gel sticks up to now. Sony has a reputation of fragile sensor glass, hence the separate type stick.