Leica m3 top plate paint experiment.

[Anbaric]

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You will sometimes find M3s with M2 or later finders, probably because the M3 finder is unique, no longer available, and may be affected by issues like prism separation that are difficult for the average technician to fix (though a few can), making replacing the whole thing as a unit a simpler alternative. I don't think I've come across the reverse, an M2 with an M3 finder, probably because hardly anyone would want that combination or have the parts available to make one (though all sorts of odd things do turn up from time to time). I don't know if there's any particular technical reason that would make it more difficult to do it this way round. Of course, 'technically possible' isn't the same thing as 'great idea'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nazm3_OXac

[Radost]

5 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Frame counter design/mechanism?

If everything else fits a circle drill for the counter glass might work.

 

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[Radost]

2 hours ago, Anbaric said:

You will sometimes find M3s with M2 or later finders, probably because the M3 finder is unique, no longer available, and may be affected by issues like prism separation that are difficult for the average technician to fix (though a few can), making replacing the whole thing as a unit a simpler alternative. I don't think I've come across the reverse, an M2 with an M3 finder, probably because hardly anyone would want that combination or have the parts available to make one (though all sorts of odd things do turn up from time to time). I don't know if there's any particular technical reason that would make it more difficult to do it this way round. Of course, 'technically possible' isn't the same thing as 'great idea'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nazm3_OXac

I have seen M3s with m2 finders…

[250swb]

Personally I'd follow the medical rules on experimentation and not try new ideas or drugs directly on the patient but use a guinea pig first, but not literally of course. Any old 'spares or repair' camera could be stripped to it's brass top plate, painted, and then the writing refilled with white paint. If all goes well and you get the correct paint finish, and you can still see the fine lettering, it could then be tested for abrasion resistance and adhesion. I suggest another camera with good quality chrome like a dead Nikkormat. It's important to remember that although not very thick Leica black paint is not as delicate as often imagined, and certainly not the shellac type lacquer so many people mistook it for with the introduced of the MP. But I think that and the M8 was the last time when solvent based paint was used, the M9 was powder coated BP.

[250swb]

On 2/8/2024 at 12:31 AM, Radost said:

 

If I do that I would not take the whole camera. The customer have to take the top and bottom plate off and send it to me. I have removed top plates before and it is not hard at all. 

 

So you don't plan to strip and paint the shutter speed dial, cap screws, or retaining rings as well? And then you leave an inexperienced person to put it back together again without scratching it? I agree with you when you say it is easy to take the top plate off, but the people you sell this service aren't you and may have zero mechanical knowledge or aptitude. If a five year old can't do it don't assume a 45 year old could because in the modern world that may be the last time they actually made anything.

[LocalHero1953]

On 2/8/2024 at 12:31 AM, Radost said:

As I mentioned above it will be done properly by one of the best vintage car painters in the world. We had dinner with Jon Kosmoski where I picked his brain about it. I have friends in town with black M4 M4.2 M5 M6 M6ttl M7 and MP. We will get all the cameras together and brainstorm a good solution.

By that argument Leica should be launching their own range of cars. Cars and cameras: it's all mechanical engineering, a bit of electronics and the cosmetics.

[Radost]

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On 2/9/2024 at 1:09 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

By that argument Leica should be launching their own range of cars. Cars and cameras: it's all mechanical engineering, a bit of electronics and the cosmetics.

Paint is paint. Chrome is chrome. Brass is Brass. On a car or on a camera.

 

On 2/9/2024 at 12:18 AM, 250swb said:

So you don't plan to strip and paint the shutter speed dial, cap screws, or retaining rings as well? And then you leave an inexperienced person to put it back together again without scratching it? I agree with you when you say it is easy to take the top plate off, but the people you sell this service aren't you and may have zero mechanical knowledge or aptitude. If a five year old can't do it don't assume a 45 year old could because in the modern world that may be the last time they actually made anything.

My main goal is to have a very good black camera. And if it works well I would not mind offering it as a service. Been looking for black cameras for a while and the good once are more expansive than brand new MP and MA.

I have a job and make good money. This is not get rich quick thing. I am confident I can get good results and benefit the community. 

People can get to local shops tp get the top plate off. This is the easy part. Getting a good paint job is what is hard. 

[Anbaric]

Several technicians who can also disassemble and service your camera at the same time (which an M2/3 probably needs) offer repaints. There's quite a lot to doing this properly:

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/re-paints

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/re-paint-process

One thing I haven't seen offered by a mainstream technician is re-plating (either with silver chrome or with black chrome) rather than re-painting, but I doubt the demand for this is terribly high. The original silver and black chrome finishes are very durable, with rare exceptions like some batches of post-war IIIc bodies, so not many people will need it as a repair. Someone who just wants a nice black plated camera has a pretty wide choice of bodies with that original finish, and not all are expensive. Black M4-2 and M4-P bodies are amongst the cheapest M Leicas. People who want to change the appearance of their camera in any case seem to like paint, and many have that strange desire to see it wear down to the brass (the black plated cameras don't wear the same way - usually you'll just see the next layer of plating, which is a silvery metal).

 

[Radost]

16 hours ago, Anbaric said:

Several technicians who can also disassemble and service your camera at the same time (which an M2/3 probably needs) offer repaints. There's quite a lot to doing this properly:

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/re-paints

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/re-paint-process

One thing I haven't seen offered by a mainstream technician is re-plating (either with silver chrome or with black chrome) rather than re-painting, but I doubt the demand for this is terribly high. The original silver and black chrome finishes are very durable, with rare exceptions like some batches of post-war IIIc bodies, so not many people will need it as a repair. Someone who just wants a nice black plated camera has a pretty wide choice of bodies with that original finish, and not all are expensive. Black M4-2 and M4-P bodies are amongst the cheapest M Leicas. People who want to change the appearance of their camera in any case seem to like paint, and many have that strange desire to see it wear down to the brass (the black plated cameras don't wear the same way - usually you'll just see the next layer of plating, which is a silvery metal).

 

Mentioned before that it will be stripped to brass first and painted locally not send over the big A pond.

 

[250swb]

So this is cheap and 'convenient', and it's not to be sent across 'the Pond' so restricted to a local service. Already in saying that you have dwindled your customer base. As for cheap, the customer has to find a techie to strip down the camera, pay them a fee with associated postage costs to-and-fro back to them, then the customer pays you the fee and sends you the parts to do the work, and then you send the parts back to the customer to-and-fro, and the customer then sends the parts back to the techie guy for reassembly to-and fro, who then sends everything back to the customer with another fee, to-and-fro. Now THAT is a business model (of some sort) to be sure. It's a chaos chain, especially if anything get's badly done, or badly installed, or even if parts start to go missing in all the micro transactions along the way.

Edited February 11 by 250swb

[espelt]

Well - that's similar to the path my camera took. I found a fairly cheap M4 Classic last year. On the outside it was quite worn. A few small dents, scratches, rubbed chrome plating. There wasn't much of the leather left either. When I saw the camera, I immediately had the idea of having it restored. Before purchasing, I inquired about the options. First the camera went to a workshop for classic cameras here on site. Where I could bring her over in person and discuss everything. It was completely dismantled. I picked up all parts such as the top cap, base plate and control buttons that needed to be repainted and sent them to a painter. Everything was dechromed, the brass parts were polished, and deep scratches and dents were filled as best as possible. And then it was repainted. In the meantime, the technology was cleaned and maintained in the workshop and a new camera leather was ordered from Aki-Asahi in Japan. The finished painted parts were sent by post to the camera workshop where everything was assembled and adjusted. The whole process took about 4 months. I am very satisfied with the result. It is now my personal M4 with a paint finish as I wanted and perfect functionality.
But: Does that really make sense? If you're a Leica freak, of course. If you want an M4 (or M2; M3) in black lacquer for real use - yes. Because the original lacquered examples are rare and expensive. Loss or damage would be a shame...
Was it a good deal? The whole thing wasn't exactly cheap: the purchase price of the camera, the workshop with overhaul, painting, etc. For example, I look at: In eBay according to the prices for newly painted M's they are slightly below my price or are similar or only slightly higher. My advantage is: I know exactly what was done. I know for sure that the technology is outdated and really works. If I were to sell the camera now, I probably wouldn't be able to do any real business. In this respect it is not a business model for me. Too many unexpected things can happen with an old camera. Cloths, shutter, viewfinder - all of this could also need to be repaired or replaced. It's not just about painting and external cosmetics. It's about the overall package. Ok for me as a project. But not as a business idea. I don't have enough of my own value creation and I don't know enough about the technology.

 

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