kraxel69 Posted December 26, 2023 Share #21 Posted December 26, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) everything ok for me. no abnormality that requires mention. the film strip is also slightly curved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 26, 2023 Posted December 26, 2023 Hi kraxel69, Take a look here M-A negative borders not straight. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
waltron Posted December 26, 2023 Share #22 Posted December 26, 2023 30 minutes ago, a.noctilux said: You are using different lenses, maybe. Lenses are definitely a factor in frame spacing, but for the time I owned all my MAs I only owned one focal length at a time. So this is independent of focal length. All of them varied between about 2 and 4mm between frames across each roll, over many rolls. My experience with all the older Ms I have owned has been consistent frame spacing and square, sharp edged frames. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 26, 2023 Share #23 Posted December 26, 2023 11 hours ago, burchyk said: Trying to highlight what is wrong with the original image above Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I see now. Curious thing indeed. When your M-A is empty, have a close look, with rear door open, at the frame opening with a loupe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 26, 2023 Share #24 Posted December 26, 2023 As with inconsistent frame spacing when a wide angle lens (21mm?) projects an image that creeps underneath the edge of the film gate it makes the image area slightly bigger than the next door image that may be made with a 50mm lens. Is this simply an additional effect of that, after all the image projected by the lens is a circle, so rather than the corners coming in what you are actually seeing is the horizontal and vertical edges going out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchyk Posted December 26, 2023 Author Share #25 Posted December 26, 2023 4 hours ago, 250swb said: As with inconsistent frame spacing when a wide angle lens (21mm?) projects an image that creeps underneath the edge of the film gate it makes the image area slightly bigger than the next door image that may be made with a 50mm lens. Is this simply an additional effect of that, after all the image projected by the lens is a circle, so rather than the corners coming in what you are actually seeing is the horizontal and vertical edges going out? That is a possibility. Although intuition tells me that the corners would get hit by the light rays at a shallower angle than the gate edges closer to the lens optical axis, expand a bit further in the corners, and create an opposite effect from what I'm observing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted December 26, 2023 Share #26 Posted December 26, 2023 When the camera is empty open the shutter and have a really close inspection of the edges of the 24x36 hole to verify whether the edges are straight or curve slightly. You really do need to check the actual camera itself; not merely inspect scans of film images which have been 'scanned' on a DSLR as issues might creep-in from these 3rd party elements. Philip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchyk Posted December 26, 2023 Author Share #27 Posted December 26, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Just finished the roll and took a close look. Can easily see the crooked shape of the film gate with the naked eye. Mystery solved 😢. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The edge finish looks as if someone was going at it with a file before it was blackened. Edited December 26, 2023 by burchyk 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The edge finish looks as if someone was going at it with a file before it was blackened. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/386306-m-a-negative-borders-not-straight/?do=findComment&comment=4962110'>More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 26, 2023 Share #28 Posted December 26, 2023 Concerning opening of film "aperture", I had done something just as experimentation. Many decades ago, I want to know afterward which M was used and my idea went to "Hasselblad type" ( I had Xpan with distinctive "notch" in negative), So I filed one notch in the film aperture in one M (M4 ?) and two in the second M (M2?). Very easy with "B" and blocking shutter release cable. 😉 I forgot this anecdote. Minutes ago, I checked on one M2, the one notch * is in the middle. Many M were sold over time and never had complaint from buyers. * to simplify, I filed one notch at different places, always at left side (so at right on the negative). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwino Posted December 26, 2023 Share #29 Posted December 26, 2023 36 minutes ago, burchyk said: Just finished the roll and took a close look. Can easily see the crooked shape of the film gate with the naked eye. Mystery solved 😢. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The edge finish looks as if someone was going at it with a file before it was blackened. Looks like you got a hand-crafted Leica! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 26, 2023 Share #30 Posted December 26, 2023 (edited) I've just checked my MP (new last January), which shows similar irregularities in the mask. I also have a M4, which I will check when I have finished the roll in it. To be clear, it doesn't worry me in the slightest - it's just an interesting feature, which makes no difference to my photography whatsoever. If I was worried about precision of framing, I wouldn't be using a rangefinder! Edited December 26, 2023 by LocalHero1953 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 26, 2023 Share #31 Posted December 26, 2023 I have also squinted at the mask in my three Barnacks through the lens mount (II Model D, Standard and iif). As far as I can tell they are all reasonably smooth and straight, but not perfectly so, but it is difficult to get a hand lens and light to bear together in the corners. From the same viewpoint, the MP mask looks similarly smooth and straight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted December 26, 2023 Share #32 Posted December 26, 2023 3 hours ago, burchyk said: Just finished the roll and took a close look. Can easily see the crooked shape of the film gate with the naked eye. Mystery solved 😢. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The edge finish looks as if someone was going at it with a file before it was blackened. Take a fine file to it yourself. Early 30’s Leicas had a shallow curved cutout at the centre bottom of the film gate, showing an additional curved negative edge at the centre top of negatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted December 27, 2023 Share #33 Posted December 27, 2023 10 hours ago, burchyk said: Just finished the roll and took a close look. Can easily see the crooked shape of the film gate with the naked eye. Mystery solved 😢. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The edge finish looks as if someone was going at it with a file before it was blackened. ...I honestly would not bother about this mechanical 'feature' as it would have zero impact on my photography. Matter of fact, being a 25x37 wet darkroom type, I would absolutely welcome the aberration as a unique identifier (à la a.noctilux). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 27, 2023 Share #34 Posted December 27, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, aesop said: ...I honestly would not bother about this mechanical 'feature' as it would have zero impact on my photography. Matter of fact, being a 25x37 wet darkroom type, I would absolutely welcome the aberration as a unique identifier (à la a.noctilux). And you'd have to pay £8,000 for a 'content authentication' feature in an M11-P. Who says film photography is expensive. Edited December 27, 2023 by 250swb 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted December 27, 2023 Share #35 Posted December 27, 2023 😁 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/386306-m-a-negative-borders-not-straight/?do=findComment&comment=4963528'>More sharing options...
Martin B Posted December 28, 2023 Share #36 Posted December 28, 2023 If you still have warranty with this camera, send it back. IMO it is an issue even the result in the final photo might be small as discussed. Not sure how this issue occurred in the first place - manufacturing defect, defect frame part used, or by a former user or badly done repair job if the camera wasn't new? None of my Leica film M cameras have this kind of issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted December 28, 2023 Share #37 Posted December 28, 2023 Am 26.12.2023 um 18:49 schrieb burchyk: Just finished the roll and took a close look. Can easily see the crooked shape of the film gate with the naked eye. Mystery solved 😢. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The edge finish looks as if someone was going at it with a file before it was blackened. Looks like they forgot to use a file after casting the body... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchyk Posted December 28, 2023 Author Share #38 Posted December 28, 2023 Checked some pictures online from various models. They vary. Old tend to look better than the current ones. Haven't seen any that were as bad as mine though. I'll have a chat with my dealer after they're back from the Christmas break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mosh1 Posted December 28, 2023 Share #39 Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) Here's the right side of my current production M6 which looks similar. My scanner doesn't get the top and bottom edges but you can see the side edges are curved in. It seems this is part of their production process. Too bad, I would like perfectly square corners. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited December 28, 2023 by mosh1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/386306-m-a-negative-borders-not-straight/?do=findComment&comment=4965917'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted December 28, 2023 Share #40 Posted December 28, 2023 I doubt if straightness of the sides of the opening has ever been a stated tolerance. In film days the borders of a print/slide were usually created by the negative holder mask, paper easel mask, or the slide mask. Exhibition prints were often matted to cover the edges. As long as the camera opening was as large or larger no one ever noticed. Some enlargers had special negative carriers with enlarged masks to cover the whole negative area, but I never used them. Of course modern cost-conscious production control eliminates as much hand-work as possible, and I'm sure trimming this area is now done differently than in past designs. I'd never consider it a defect, just a characteristic of production. Likely they felt this area could be cast as accurately as needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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