Leica M11 / M11-M / M11-P: Firmware Update v.2.0.2

[jaapv]

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On 12/3/2023 at 8:52 PM, Photoworks said:

Well i think i am going back to FW 1.6.1

I should often Tethered to capture one on iPad, the new firmware changed some settings in 2.0.2. It is necessary to set camera connection to Tethered to get it to work, and it doesn't save it to SD card at the same time. what is more annoying it the fact that as soon you unplug the camera you can shoot until you go into the menu and set connection to something else.
Why this happened I don't know, probably to get some more compatibility for FOTOS app and Lightroom.

As a Capture one user I was happy with setting the camera to PTP connection and shoot into SD card and iPad/Computer at the same time. If the 33ft cable was in the way, unplug and keep shooting with SD card. Liive was simple.

My connections to Fotos app where always with wifi anyway. 

For myself there are no reason to keep firmware 2.0.2

You cannot reverse firmware on a Leica. 

[mediumformula]

I'm watching all this from the sidelines with my M11M still on 1.6.1 until a new firmware update gets a resounding clean bill of health.  I've had no issues with my M11M so have seen no reason to update.  

[rcusick]

14 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Appreciate the sentiment and genuinely glad that you aren't.  Current card is a v90 300 MB/s 64GB. This hopefully suggests to you, as it does to me (and as I've believed all along), that subtle timing alterations alternately expose or hide this and possibly other problems that have been reported with the M11.

I purchased my M11 on day number one.  I had a few lockups, certainly fewer than some on these pages seemed to have experienced. After 1.6, I can't recall seeing any. I only saw the exposure issue when trying like hell to induce it.  As it had been reported by others, I was curious if I could reproduce it to understand how to avoid the issue. And indeed I was able to and have done so.  I found neither of these problems to be all that infuriating, but I certainly can understand how an unexpected blown exposure could ruin one's day.  Love or hate, much depends on what each individual shoots and how they go about it.  For my style and work, the 11 had no truly serious issues... until 2.0.2 introduced me to this one (I skipped 2.0.1).  And for the record all of this, good and bad, has taken place with the very same card referenced above installed on that same day one.

To repeat. The card has not changed; the software has. Never had a file corrupted until the latest firmware release. On any M. With any card. Ever. Logically, what is to blame?

Before any answering that question, perhaps its worth reminding ourselves that Leica has stated very clearly in their release notes for 2.0.2 that there is a known file corruption problem for which they expect to supply a fix 'shortly'. A problem which in their words, not mine, is 'rare'.  I've hit the issue 4 times in around 300 frames.  Rare perhaps for some, but not for me.  Additionally, I have not seen Leica state anything about certain cards being problematic w.r.t. to this file corruption. To the contrary, and to their credit, they are owning the issue as their problem to fix.

Buy/try a new card... the problem may indeed go into hibernation as with different read/write/controller access/etc speeds; if the timing landscape gets altered enough what might have been a head on collision now turns into a near miss. Just recognize that any success achieved is more a matter of voodoo than technology.  As with hdmesa, I'm happy for all those who can count themselves fortunate for not having encountered this particular failure. But it should be understood that when credible users report that they have, those that haven't shouldn't assume that problem isn't in there, nor that they wont eventually run into it.  New card or no.

 

I wansnt trying to minimize the problems others are having.  I feel like on this forum people focus on the negative versus a good experience. I was just trying to state that I haven’t had issues myself and when I have it has been due to a memory card.

[Tailwagger]

55 minutes ago, mediumformula said:

I'm watching all this from the sidelines with my M11M still on 1.6.1 until a new firmware update gets a resounding clean bill of health.  I've had no issues with my M11M so have seen no reason to update.  

I think this is sage advice for others who've yet to upgrade.  While many seem to have no issues, others like myself have.  Likely its roulette, but in this case if your unlucky enough to have your number come up, it is indeed somewhat vexing. That said... personal sample size of 1... if you're cool with turning on the SD=IN,  it appears you can mitigate the problem.  So for some folks, if there are feature improvements that they simply must have, there is a reasonable decision to be made.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Tailwagger

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

You cannot reverse firmware on a Leica. 

why not, it is just an os, I am sure leica internally has the option, but maybe not open to the public

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

why not, it is just an os, I am sure leica internally has the option, but maybe not open to the public

That is correct. They have the option for repair purposes. I have yet to hear of anybody for whom they reversed the firmware.

[jaapv]

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7 hours ago, lct said:

Problem is the applicable law is that of the habitual residence of the consumer in EU regulations. 

I doubt it You'll find that most German contracts  (including Leicas sales' contracts ) specify a Rechtsstand, i.e. the court under which the company resides. With Leica that is probably Frankfurt.  

[lct]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

I doubt it You'll find that most German contracts  (including Leicas sales' contracts ) specify a Rechtsstand, i.e. the court under which the company resides. With Leica that is probably Frankfurt.  

Applicable law and competent court are not the same thing. About applicable law, see:

https://www.lexisnexis.co.uk/legal/guidance/rome-i-consumer-contracts-art-6

 

[jaapv]

You’re the expert and thus far ahead of me. But I do know that I had to travel 1500 km up and down from Konstanz to Düsseldorf when I had a conflict with a moving firm as their contract stipulated the Düsseldorf court. I think Germany has a somewhat legal system from the UK. 

[lct]

17 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You’re the expert and thus far ahead of me. But I do know that I had to travel 1500 km up and down from Konstanz to Düsseldorf when I had a conflict with a moving firm as their contract stipulated the Düsseldorf court. I think Germany has a somewhat legal system from the UK. 

It's just that conflicts of jurisdictions are not the same matter as conflicts of laws. The German court, in your example, could have to apply the Dutch law if you had a dispute with a German firm while your habitual residence is in the Netherlands.

[jaapv]

IIRC German Law claims it is valid worldwide. 

[lct]

9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

IIRC German Law claims it is valid worldwide. 

All national laws are valid worldwide as long as they are applicable by local and foreign courts. Oops sorry for the OT folks.

[douglas fry]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:41 AM, Al Brown said:

In EU the LEGAL obligation to repair a faulty camera within warranty is 45 days or the seller has to replace it. No questions asked, no doubt here.

That sounds very helpful, how could I invoke that in an email to Leica? Is there a link I could use ? My M11-P started playing up today,  on my last shoot of the year, like it was very slow to write the files (IN=SD) , it was very frustrating. I should never have sold my M10 which worked flawlessly for years

[geotrupede]

On 12/21/2023 at 4:12 PM, mediumformula said:

I'm watching all this from the sidelines with my M11M still on 1.6.1 until a new firmware update gets a resounding clean bill of health.  I've had no issues with my M11M so have seen no reason to update.  

Indeed a very wise choice.

My experience with 2 and 2.0.2: the first as we all know introduced the silly idea of closing the shutter whenever the lens reader did not see a lens with no option of changing this. The second resolved the self-inflicted issue, but also came with some form of instability.

I had few camera crashes since rev 2 was installed, which I very seldom had before.

 

Today for example  the camera froze. I had  a battery in/out, but then it failed to record few images. So another battery in/out.

Not a huge issue as once I did the battery/in/out dance twice all worked again, but still a sign that something is not right with this new FW and it really should be.

I would like to propose that 2.0.3 is the same as 1.6.1, so just go back as we cannot from 2.02.

I would be very happy to do so.

G.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by geotrupede

[lct]

33 minutes ago, geotrupede said:

[...] I would like to propose that 2.0.3 is the same as 1.6.1, so just go back as we cannot from 2.02 [...]

Firmwares 1.6.1, 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 did work fine for me but the wandering focus point of firmware 1.6.1 was painful actually so please Mr Leica, if you have to downgrade, do it to firmware 2.0.1 instead. Also please include the dust protection function of firmware 2.0.2 that i find very good from this viewpoint.

Edited December 23, 2023 by lct

[geotrupede]

38 minutes ago, lct said:

Firmwares 1.6.1, 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 did work fine for me but the wandering focus point of firmware 1.6.1 was painful actually so please Mr Leica, if you have to downgrade, do it to firmware 2.0.1 instead. Also please include the dust protection function of firmware 2.0.2 that i find very good from this viewpoint.

2.0.1 was the beginning of all issues... not sure what was added that cracked the solid 1.6.1, but perhaps the protection dust function may have been one of the sources of this...

BTW such function is already included in all FW versions, including 1.6.1...

It is the off button on top of camera before changing a lens...

😉

G>

 

[lct]

19 minutes ago, geotrupede said:

2.0.1 was the beginning of all issues... not sure what was added that cracked the solid 1.6.1, but perhaps the protection dust function may have been one of the sources of this...

BTW such function is already included in all FW versions, including 1.6.1...

It is the off button on top of camera before changing a lens... [...]

The wandering focus point was painful for LV users, at least for me. I would not downgrade to the 1.6.1 firmware for this sole reason. As for dust protection, i could not use some of my uncoded LTM to M adapters before firmware 2.0.2, due to the shutter being closed the way dust protection was implemented previously. Since firmware 2.0.2, i just toggle off dust protection for some uncoded lenses and/or adapters, while keeping it on for coded lenses and adapters at will. Good firmware update from this viewpoint. YMMV.

[jaapv]

He lost me there. Why should I update for “features “ I neither want nor need?  I’ll happily do so if it adds something, but if not, why run the risk of bugs or an unwanted modifications. 
Especially as Leica does not have the option to reverse an update. 

[david strachan]

I'm in Jaapville here.

Sometimes the updates are for new lenses I'm never going to buy or use, for example.

Plenty of times people have regretted updating cameras and other electronica only to find problems.

...

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[jaapv]

I make one exception, though: computer and phone operating systems. For security reasons I keep them up-to-the-minute.