90mm and 135mm lens on M

[markc2]

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Hi All, 

 

Sometimes I like to be lazy and not get out of the car, one of my best and most lucky shots I got with a 90mm on an R8 from inside the car. SO...what tips and tricks do you all use on the M series with these lenses? From what I understand these two lenses are the upper limits of Rangefinder use. If I'm wrong with that thought please let me know!

 

Thank you!

 

Mark

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[RexGig0]

Some like to use the 1.4x Leica Viewfinder Magnifier, Leica part #12006, to assist in rangefinder-focusing. These can be difficult to find. I recently ordered one from a European Leica Store, and believe it was the only one they had in stock, at the time. Here are links to B&H and Leica Store Miami:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/586205-REG/Leica_12_006_Viewfinder_Magnifier_1_4x_for.html/qa

https://leicastoremiami.com/products/leica-vf-magnifier-1-4x?variant=345686351

I have yet to use mine. I will try to remember to return to this discussion, to report results.

[Gregm61]

They are not lenses, especially the 135mm, that you decide to throw in the bag for a trip and expect to obtain good results unless you use/practice with it a lot.

The rangefinder on your camera needs to be well adjusted.

At one point I sent my M262 and 135mm f3.4 Telyt to DAG and had him adjust the lens to that camera and the lens has subsequently also worked very well on an MP240 and M246.

I also have an older 135mm f4 Tele Elmar that works accurately on the MP240 and M246 and is a very sharp lens. I do think the longer focus throw of the Tele Elmar helps with the focus accuracy but Tele Elmars are also old enough how well they work depends alot on the condition of the lens you obtain.

DAG commented to me when I sent him the M262 and 135/3.4, most 135's are about a 50/50 bet in terms of being well adjusted enough to work accurately on any specific M body.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Gregm61

[Printmaker]

I agree. Have your 135 Tele Elmar adjusted to your body BEFORE you shoot anything important.

[dpitt]

Do not forget the goggled 135 mm Elmarit 135 F2.8. They are just as easy to focus as a 90 mm Elmarit M. Inf act, they use the 90mm frame lines and magnify the viewer by 1.41x.
People with current electronic view finders have the advantage of magnification to help with focusing. Then the RF calibration is not critical.

Edited November 25, 2023 by dpitt

[TomB_tx]

I bought the 90 TE with my M4 as my only lens at the time, after shooting sports with an M2 & 90. I loved the way you could see the action around the 90 frame lines and shift the view to get the action I wanted. Of course I added a 50 and 35 once I could afford them, but still appreciate a 90 on a .72 finder.

[spydrxx]

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I've been using 135's on aM4, M2 and Barnacks since 1969. Yes, you need to ensure that the lens is properly calibrated to the M specs. It helps to have good vision for focusing. The Barnacks do an incredibly good job with the magnified image. You can use many of the 135 and 90s with a Visoflex which is nice for nature photography. I picked up a 90 Elmar a couple of years ago, expecting not much, but have been happily surprised with its ease of use, focusing, and rendering. If you have had a morning cuppa java or two, you might find holding the camera steady enough for a sharp shot challenging....practice is in order with these lenses. I also use mine fairly frequently on digital with adapters, and with live view they are easy to focus. I give them a thumbs up on M bodies!

[markc2]

Thanks for all of the help so far, so the key is practice, I don't see how that could ever be a bad thing with a Leica M, and making sure things are adjusted and in good working order. 

 

The view finder sounds awesome I hope I can eventually find one, I shoot left eye so that would give my nose some breathing room 🙂

 

Thank you!

 

Mark

Edited November 26, 2023 by markc2

[KFo]

I have a macro elmarit-m 90 (with the macro adapter), hektor 13.5 f/4 (1958) and APO-Telyt-R 180 f/3.4 with the  APO-Extender-R 2X.  From the looks of it you would think that I take a lot of long lens photos.  Not so, all were purchased with specific projects in mind.

With the 90, I find no issues whatsoever with rangefinder focusing.  The lens did get a repair in Wetzlar for a comma problem when I bought it.  I intensely dislike doing the LV screen focus thing so RF focus is mandatory for me.  Never use the macro adapter outside of tripod use then it's LV of course.  If it was important I'd get a visoflex.

The hektor 135 is also focused just fine using the RF, maybe I'm just lucky with the particular lens I bought.

The 180  APO is only used on a tripod and is of course LV only.

I find that I can hand hold the 90 and 135 well and focus accurately with the RF no problem. The 180 is a different story.  With the 2X adapter I find the 180-> 360 very difficult to use as many factors come into play that I'm not accustomed to dealing with.

Edited November 26, 2023 by KFo

[VanDooglz]

17 hours ago, markc2 said:

From what I understand these two lenses are the upper limits of Rangefinder use.

They are way beyond the upper limits of rangefinder use. They're firmly in the eating-soop-with-a-fork or fucking-in-a-hammock territory. Absolutely possible, but only for the determined hardcore individuals like Evel Knievel and Chuck Norris.

[dpitt]

7 hours ago, VanDooglz said:

They are way beyond the upper limits of rangefinder use. They're firmly in the eating-soop-with-a-fork or fucking-in-a-hammock territory. Absolutely possible, but only for the determined hardcore individuals like Evel Knievel and Chuck Norris.

Not sure why you say that. 90mm lenses are well within the limits. 135mm and F2.8 is an other matter, but that is what the goggles are for.

I even shot the 135mm Tele-Elmar with my M8, that is 180mm eq and without a corresponding frame. It does not matter because the frame would only be slightly larger than the focus patch anyway. (about the width of the patch on either side) Still I managed to shoot this and many other good ones, using only the RF:

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[Ernstk]

9 hours ago, VanDooglz said:

They are way beyond the upper limits of rangefinder use. They're firmly in the eating-soop-with-a-fork or fucking-in-a-hammock territory. 

Completely agree. It's bordering on farcical to use those focal lengths on a rangefinder. Just buy an SLR.

Using goggles is equally screwed up. (Goggles = Leica's admission that they got the M3 wrong).

50mm is the upper limit in my view but really, the sweet spot is 21mm-35mm.

Ernst

Edited November 26, 2023 by Ernstk

[RexGig0]

I have not found my Thambar-M* 90mm f/2.2 and Zeiss Tele Tessar 85mm f/4 ZM lenses all that difficult to focus, with the rangefinder, if stopped-down for landscape-like images, and general walking-about in urban places to photograph street scenes. (“Street scenes” does not mean “street photography, in this context, but, getting man-made structures within the image.) This is what/how I would shoot if were to remain seated within a vehicle, using a long lens on an M camera.

I have found my APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH quite the challenge to rangefinder-focus, but, I have been using it at relatively wide apertures, on closer-range subjects, with the resulting shallower DOF being a significant factor. This is the reason I ordered the 1.4X Magnifier.

*I realize that the Thambar is better known for its special effects, when shot wide-open. I have seemed too busy to play with that capability, much, yet. Obviously, the Center Spot filter is not used when shooting stopped-down, and, I like the way Thambar sharpens, when stopped-down, without the modern effect rendered by the Zeiss 85mm ZM.

Edited November 27, 2023 by RexGig0

[newtoleica]

21 hours ago, Ernstk said:

Completely agree. It's bordering on farcical to use those focal lengths on a rangefinder. Just buy an SLR.

Using goggles is equally screwed up. (Goggles = Leica's admission that they got the M3 wrong).

50mm is the upper limit in my view but really, the sweet spot is 21mm-35mm.

Ernst

Yes, my three are 24, 35 and 50. I didn't find the 90 practically useful and the 75 is too close to the 50 to bother with. Even on an M10 you can crop a 50 down to 90 and have a very useable image.

[chris_tribble]

Hmm - I actually find the  M135 A-T very easy to work with (for some reason, much more than the M 90 Apo-Summicron which I no longer own).  The images below were both taken with M8 in Shanghai many moons ago!  FWIW I currently use the Zeiss 85 as my go to tele lens on the M10-R when I'm trekking.  A perfect combination with the M 35 Summicron-Asph IMHO. 

Ok - I'd not be wanting to do a lot of wildlife with the A-T 135, but for a lot of things it's really useful to have in the bag!

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Edited November 27, 2023 by chris_tribble

[evikne]

14 minutes ago, chris_tribble said:

Hmm - I actually find the  M135 A-T very easy to work with (for some reason, much more than the M 90 Apo-Summicron which I no longer own).  The images below were both taken with M8 in Shanghai many moons ago!  FWIW I currently use the Zeiss 85 as my go to tele lens on the M10-R when I'm trekking.  A perfect combination with the M 35 Summicron-Asph IMHO. 

Ok - I'd not be wanting to do a lot of wildlife with the A-T 135, but for a lot of things it's really useful to have in the bag!

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I'm a former magician, so I enjoyed seeing the last picture!

[pgk]

I've been hovering as to whether to respond to this thread.Basically firstly, to the OP, you need to get out (of the car) more😁.

Secondly, yes, 90 and 135 lenses can be tricky to focus especially faster 90s. To me they are bright light lenses because they require good visual acuity to se effectively with the rangefinder. In lore contrast conditions, unless your visual acuity is excellent, they become more difficult simply because judging the coincident image is harder. With aging eyes this will become more of an issue.

Thirdly, in my experince of the 135 lenses the only one I have found to be accurately with regards to activating the rangefinder accurately is the E46 version. I haven't tried the app but I suspect it works well too. Earlier 135s are more hit and miss and it was not until I finally bought an E46 version that I was satisfied that focus was accurate at all distances. So lens choice may be something to think about too. The E46 lens is more expensive than E39 of course! And the apo more still.

So I still have 90/2.8 and 135/4(E46) lenses which I still use but I prefer using 21 - 75 lenses on an M RF because they are easier to use and be confident of focus accuracy in lower light conditions.

[Jeff S]

On 11/25/2023 at 10:57 AM, RexGig0 said:

Some like to use the 1.4x Leica Viewfinder Magnifier, Leica part #12006, to assist in rangefinder-focusing.

These M magnifiers (including the 1.25x)  require a thread adapter for the larger diameter M10 and M11 viewfinders.

To each his own, but my 1.25x magnifier has stayed in a drawer soon after purchase many years ago.  I find that it reduces contrast rather than enhances viewing quality.  It’s also essential that one’s eyes are well corrected, and camera/lens well calibrated; otherwise issues will merely be magnified.

Personally, I stick to 28/35/50 mm focal lengths, with RF-only use, for my M’s.  I cover the rest with the SL2. 

Different strokes, as always.

Jeff
 

 

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[105012]

I regularly shoot the 135mm APO-Telyt wide open on my three M3's, always perfect focus and easy to acquire focus. I know, probably not a relevant comment, but just wanted to put out a data point that 135mm lenses can easily work with RF cameras, assuming they do not have a miniaturising viewfinder...

[Warton]

75 is my limit on m.