M10R Life Expectancy

[hepcat]

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On 12/2/2023 at 11:19 AM, Al Brown said:

I am holding a brand new aftermarket M8 battery in my hand for a long discontinued camera that came out in late 2006. No fear for the batteries.

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AFAIK there are no "aftermarket" batteries for the M10 series.

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[RayD28]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:33 AM, fotografr said:

In ten years the wait time for servicing will be.....another ten years. 

And Leica will offer a trade-in discount and people will opt for the, err, M14.  (They's skip 13 like some hotels do not have a 13th floor.)

[Anbaric]

12 hours ago, hepcat said:

AFAIK there are no "aftermarket" batteries for the M10 series.

This could become a significant issue down the road. M10 (and M11) users may not have many spare batteries as they are quite pricey (and will not last indefinitely, even if unused). Will Leica still be supplying them when they need replacing? The M8/9/M-E battery is still available from Leica (as are third party alternatives), about 8 years (and counting) after the last cameras that used it were discontinued. This is already better than Fuji managed with the battery for my X100T, which they told me was no longer available when I enquired just over 6 years after they stopped selling the camera. But with the Fuji, that wasn't a problem, as there are several decent third party replacements that remain readily available. If Leica retire one of the batteries that only they supply, users might one day have to rely on the sort of hacks that have been used to rebuild the DMR batteries, which became unavailable quite soon after the module was discontinued. Assuming, of course, that it is straightforward to do this. Some camera manufacturers use chips that prevent the use of unauthorised batteries (I've no idea if Leica has started doing anything like this).

[hepcat]

41 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Assuming, of course, that it is straightforward to do this. Some camera manufacturers use chips that prevent the use of unauthorised batteries (I've no idea if Leica has started doing anything like this).

The OEM M8 and M9 batteries are chipped.  Third party manufacturers found that the batteries could still be employed without the Leica chip.  It's a pretty safe bet that M10 battery chips are more complex yet, and proprietary chip set.   I'd imagine that's why we don't see any third party batteries.   And unless Leica licenses the technology to a third party vendor, there likely won't be any third party vendors.   Hopefully though, with the numbers of bodies they've sold over the past few years, it'll be incentive enough for them to continue manufacturing the batteries as the M10 series ages.

[Reciprocity]

I have an M10-P that I bought new in September of 2019 and have used it a lot for full time professional use. Due to how quiet it is and that 24MP is perfectly fine for the work I use it for, this is the end of the line for Leica for me and with a small kit of primes and a couple of M film bodies, I am perfectly at home with this setup. 

But I am wondering if I should not send it in to get checked over and I am also wondering if there is a way to check the frame count on it? I wish Leica had something like NPS for quick turn around but they don't so I am hesitant to send it in and have it get tied up for weeks if not months.

In any case, it's good to read some of the info here regarding longevity. I have three batteries that are just cranking right along but maybe a 4th kept in the corner of the gear cabinet could be a good idea. 

 

 

[Winedemonium]

I love the idea of wearing out a Leica camera. In my years of using them to date I have not managed to do so. I would consider it a matter of some pride. Garry Winogrand probably gave it the best shot. I know at my rate of shooting I won't get to within even a meaningful fraction of his volume. 

For my M10R BP, the least of my worries is the life of the shutter. The first worry is that GAS will lead me to rationalise an 'upgrade' at some point. This is the main reason I've never been able to wear out a camera, if I'm honest. The second reason is that I'm just not heavy duty enough a user. After that, it's really a question of software compatibility I think - what will our desktop/laptops be like in 10 or 20 years' time, and the software running on them? Finding SD cards with compatible storage and transfer speeds to run on the camera will likely be trickier, but probably not impossible, and perhaps there will be a 'vintage' trade in them. 🤣 I anticipate batteries will be findable. And, given these are Leica cameras, I anticipate that even if something becomes known to break or malfunction, and Leica exhaust their parts, such is the enthusiasm for them that there will probably be someone in a little workshop somewhere in the world who has some hack to get them working. 

No, I anticipate that long before anything in the camera becomes irreplaceable, it will be my eyesight that wears out.

This, for me, is one of the great satisfactions of the Leica M system.

[jakontil]

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On 12/12/2023 at 2:54 PM, Winedemonium said:

I love the idea of wearing out a Leica camera. In my years of using them to date I have not managed to do so. I would consider it a matter of some pride. Garry Winogrand probably gave it the best shot. I know at my rate of shooting I won't get to within even a meaningful fraction of his volume. 

For my M10R BP, the least of my worries is the life of the shutter. The first worry is that GAS will lead me to rationalise an 'upgrade' at some point. This is the main reason I've never been able to wear out a camera, if I'm honest. The second reason is that I'm just not heavy duty enough a user. After that, it's really a question of software compatibility I think - what will our desktop/laptops be like in 10 or 20 years' time, and the software running on them? Finding SD cards with compatible storage and transfer speeds to run on the camera will likely be trickier, but probably not impossible, and perhaps there will be a 'vintage' trade in them. 🤣 I anticipate batteries will be findable. And, given these are Leica cameras, I anticipate that even if something becomes known to break or malfunction, and Leica exhaust their parts, such is the enthusiasm for them that there will probably be someone in a little workshop somewhere in the world who has some hack to get them working. 

No, I anticipate that long before anything in the camera becomes irreplaceable, it will be my eyesight that wears out.

This, for me, is one of the great satisfactions of the Leica M system.

I thought my M10D was my path to wearing out a leica camera, not until M10 r BP and that M11 battery life is a GASsionate for me…wish i could turn back time …or not 

[muskyvibes]

On 12/12/2023 at 2:54 PM, Winedemonium said:

I love the idea of wearing out a Leica camera. In my years of using them to date I have not managed to do so. I would consider it a matter of some pride. Garry Winogrand probably gave it the best shot. I know at my rate of shooting I won't get to within even a meaningful fraction of his volume. 

For my M10R BP, the least of my worries is the life of the shutter. The first worry is that GAS will lead me to rationalise an 'upgrade' at some point. This is the main reason I've never been able to wear out a camera, if I'm honest. The second reason is that I'm just not heavy duty enough a user. After that, it's really a question of software compatibility I think - what will our desktop/laptops be like in 10 or 20 years' time, and the software running on them? Finding SD cards with compatible storage and transfer speeds to run on the camera will likely be trickier, but probably not impossible, and perhaps there will be a 'vintage' trade in them. 🤣 I anticipate batteries will be findable. And, given these are Leica cameras, I anticipate that even if something becomes known to break or malfunction, and Leica exhaust their parts, such is the enthusiasm for them that there will probably be someone in a little workshop somewhere in the world who has some hack to get them working. 

No, I anticipate that long before anything in the camera becomes irreplaceable, it will be my eyesight that wears out.

This, for me, is one of the great satisfactions of the Leica M system.

I couldn’t be less interested in cameras. I’ve had my M10R BP for 2 years now and it feels like I just got it yesterday every time I take it out. 

I’m more interested in lenses than cameras. I can say without a doubt my M10R BP is the last camera body I’ll ever buy. I’m finished buying cameras. 

[jaapv]

On 12/10/2023 at 5:31 PM, Anbaric said:

This could become a significant issue down the road. M10 (and M11) users may not have many spare batteries as they are quite pricey (and will not last indefinitely, even if unused). Will Leica still be supplying them when they need replacing? The M8/9/M-E battery is still available from Leica (as are third party alternatives), about 8 years (and counting) after the last cameras that used it were discontinued. This is already better than Fuji managed with the battery for my X100T, which they told me was no longer available when I enquired just over 6 years after they stopped selling the camera. But with the Fuji, that wasn't a problem, as there are several decent third party replacements that remain readily available. If Leica retire one of the batteries that only they supply, users might one day have to rely on the sort of hacks that have been used to rebuild the DMR batteries, which became unavailable quite soon after the module was discontinued. Assuming, of course, that it is straightforward to do this. Some camera manufacturers use chips that prevent the use of unauthorised batteries (I've no idea if Leica has started doing anything like this).

The M 9 battery daters back to the M8 from 2006 and  mine from 2006 and 2007 are still OK. If not and not available just toddle down the road to your friendly battery refurbishment service…

[Anbaric]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The M 9 battery daters back to the M8 from 2006 and  mine from 2006 and 2007 are still OK. If not and not available just toddle down the road to your friendly battery refurbishment service…

I wouldn't be worried about that one so much, because third party alternatives already exist (which also implies any authorisation chip isn't a major issue, which would probably make refurbishment easier too). I'd wonder about the later batteries, which don't appear to have been cloned. If that's because an authorisation chip makes if difficult (rather than, say, a limited market making it not worthwhile), I suppose that also might be a challenge for battery refurbishers in the future.

[muskyvibes]

4 hours ago, Anbaric said:

I wouldn't be worried about that one so much, because third party alternatives already exist (which also implies any authorisation chip isn't a major issue, which would probably make refurbishment easier too). I'd wonder about the later batteries, which don't appear to have been cloned. If that's because an authorisation chip makes if difficult (rather than, say, a limited market making it not worthwhile), I suppose that also might be a challenge for battery refurbishers in the future.

As far as I’m aware, clone SLC-5 batteries do not exist. Only original Leica batteries. 

My Leica M10 battery won’t suddenly stop working. Eventually it won’t be able to hold a charge 100% so it won’t last as long, but by then I’ll have several batteries to get my through a day. So if now I can do with 2, maybe 15-20 years from now I’ll have 5 in the bag. 

Even if they stop making them, those 5 will get me to my death. 

The only batteries I ended up throwing away were clone batteries. I bought an extra battery for my Fuji (when I used to shoot that) and I wanted it cheap so I went with a clone that they sold at the camera store. It wasn’t something from the internet either. Almost a year later it couldn’t be charged. So I threw it away. I just went with the original Fuji and it was perfect until I sold all my Fuji gear. 

I always buy original brand batteries. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by muskyvibes

[Warton]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:51 AM, RayD28 said:

And Leica will offer a trade-in discount and people will opt for the, err, M14.  (They's skip 13 like some hotels do not have a 13th floor.)

in UK, 12th floor is 13th, and 13 is 14.

so you have to go from 11 to 14 directly, skipping both 12 and 13

[muskyvibes]

My building goes 11-12-12A-14. 

[Alberti]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:20 PM, wizard said:

I thought the answer would be 42 🙂.

No, the essence of the camera is 42.

[TeleElmar135mm]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Alberti:

No, the essence of the camera is 42.

... and the camera is wrapped with a bath towel instead of the "normal" package and you can make pictures of The Restaurant at the End of the Universe  

[Printmaker]

After just redoing my Lightroom catalog, I found that I got 11,000 exposures on my M8 over a period of 5 years. My M9 went well over 20,000 exposures in 7 years… but it took 3 sensors. My M9M went over 30,000 exposures before becoming a SL. My current M10 has 35,000 exposures and is still going strong. I tend not to shoot a lot of captures on my M cameras. On the other hand my SL2S has over 10,000 exposures in just under a year.

I’ll keep my M10 for the rest of my life and will probably add a M10R and a M10M during the next few years. I think the M10 series is the last of the true M cameras. It’s certainly the most enjoyable camera I’ve ever had.

BTW I had a M4 for 45 years but had to replace the shutter after 30 years of moderate use… like 2-4 rolls a week.

[tomasis7]

My Epson Rd1 still works. Epson released it in the year 2004. So it is 20 years old! The CCD sensor is the same as the Nikon D70.

I wouldn't worry about the shutter but the sensor.

M10 CMOS sensor less sensitive? Shutters are repairable?

[overexposed]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:18 AM, Printmaker said:

After just redoing my Lightroom catalog, I found that I got 11,000 exposures on my M8 over a period of 5 years. My M9 went well over 20,000 exposures in 7 years… but it took 3 sensors. My M9M went over 30,000 exposures before becoming a SL. My current M10 has 35,000 exposures and is still going strong. I tend not to shoot a lot of captures on my M cameras. On the other hand my SL2S has over 10,000 exposures in just under a year.

I’ll keep my M10 for the rest of my life and will probably add a M10R and a M10M during the next few years. I think the M10 series is the last of the true M cameras. It’s certainly the most enjoyable camera I’ve ever had.

BTW I had a M4 for 45 years but had to replace the shutter after 30 years of moderate use… like 2-4 rolls a week.

the M10R and M10M is truly THE killer combo!

 

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Hallo,

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