Leica M11 -purplish tint ???

[don daniel]

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb CDodkin:

The new option seems to be a poor work wound instead of fixing the actual WB.

You have a fixed offset, yet a variable magenta tint depending on conditions.

So maybe you get a closer WB, but it's still not accurate.

You can keep promoting white balance with the Expodisc. That’s certainly not something I’ll be doing in my daily work. The M11 now has, thanks to the new firmware and its settings options, a white balance that’s just as reliable and configurable as that of other camera brands. Of course, I think it would make sense for Leica to choose a more neutral base calibration for the next model. And did it really have to take this long before the issue was finally addressed? That’s a fair question. But at this point, nitpicking about how it turned out seems overly critical to me.

[Photoworks]

5 hours ago, CDodkin said:

The new option seems to be a poor work wound instead of fixing the actual WB.

You have a fixed offset, yet a variable magenta tint depending on conditions.

So maybe you get a closer WB, but it's still not accurate.

Why is there one correct setting?

break the rules and be creative! In any case, I have no idea why people refuse to edit the photos to taste. Leaving so much potential behind from the DNG files.

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[CDodkin]

4 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Why is there one correct setting?

break the rules and be creative! In any case, I have no idea why people refuse to edit the photos to taste. Leaving so much potential behind from the DNG files.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I have no issue with editing to taste - I do want to start from a neutral starting position however

[CDodkin]

5 hours ago, don daniel said:

You can keep promoting white balance with the Expodisc. That’s certainly not something I’ll be doing in my daily work. The M11 now has, thanks to the new firmware and its settings options, a white balance that’s just as reliable and configurable as that of other camera brands. Of course, I think it would make sense for Leica to choose a more neutral base calibration for the next model. And did it really have to take this long before the issue was finally addressed? That’s a fair question. But at this point, nitpicking about how it turned out seems overly critical to me.

Not nit picking - pointing out they didn't actually fix the problem, (as people are stating), they just put a band-aid on it

[CDodkin]

9 hours ago, Steve Ash said:

That is an unproven statement. You can be correct or utterly wrong. 

3 years of research with the M11 gives me all the data to prove it's a variable magenta tint issue - experience vs opinion Steve 

[Steve Ash]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb CDodkin:

3 years of research with the M11 gives me all the data to prove it's a variable magenta tint issue - experience vs opinion Steve 

The question is if there is really a perfekt WB for lighting scenarios. I tend to follow Jaapv's view. I want to see real colors as my eyes perceive them in standard lighting such as daylight, defined artifical lights. In this respect i find the offering of Leica to apply one offset very reasonable. Regarding varying offsets i am also not sure if this might not even depends of the individual response of the viewing person. That is impossible to provide.

[M11 for me]

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb CDodkin:

they just put a band-aid on it

Note that many users and photographers are very happy with the actual AWB. Skin tones come out great. 

For post processing you can create your private import profile (what you certainly know very well) so that you get the requested neutral starting position. Just do it.

An example: When I got my Q3 some years ago I did not like its AWB as it was too green (my personal taste). I created that personal import profile so that the imported images look like the ones out of the M11. Since then that issue is forgotten. I import images from the Q3 and they look like the ones from the M11. I do not think about it any more.

Leica indeed would "calibrate" your camera if you wish to have it calibrated. Yes, they do it. A few users here reported about satisfying results. But as you can expect: At the end, what Leica sent back as "calibrated", is a bit this or bit that. It's a never ending thing.

So whatever you wish to get as a customer Leica gave you in the past.

Just one thing they did not do: They did not change the basic and original AWB. There are too many users out there that are quite against that.

And now you have that new feature in the settings: Create your own neutral starting point straight in the camera. Others did it long ago with their import profile.

 

[don daniel]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb CDodkin:

Not nit picking - pointing out they didn't actually fix the problem, (as people are stating), they just put a band-aid on it

On what personal experience is this assessment based, that the problem is not solved? For years, I have criticized the M11’s white balance. I now consider the problem solved. In different lighting situations, I am getting very good results with both AWB and the fixed settings: The magenta cast is a thing of the past. For me, this matter is settled.

[jakontil]

7 hours ago, CDodkin said:

Not nit picking - pointing out they didn't actually fix the problem, (as people are stating), they just put a band-aid on it

Of course they could make it permanent fix by not letting users to customize it, end of story

but they didnt, instead they give options.. cant always make everyone happy but im sure majority will justified 

 

[fenykepesz]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

Note that many users and photographers are very happy with the actual AWB. Skin tones come out great. 

same here.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb don daniel:

For years, I have criticized the M11’s white balance. I now consider the problem solved. In different lighting situations, I am getting very good results with both AWB and the fixed settings:

i fully agree with you both on the skin color - i am frequently just amazed how my M11-D + AWB + newest FW manages under the most differing circumstances cranking out skin tones that just feel right on my color calibrated monitor.  it's even better if i leave it alone because i then usually would just screw up the photo temperature in one or the other direction...

Edited Wednesday at 12:44 PM by fenykepesz

[CDodkin]

5 hours ago, Steve Ash said:

The question is if there is really a perfekt WB for lighting scenarios. I tend to follow Jaapv's view. I want to see real colors as my eyes perceive them in standard lighting such as daylight, defined artifical lights. In this respect i find the offering of Leica to apply one offset very reasonable. Regarding varying offsets i am also not sure if this might not even depends of the individual response of the viewing person. That is impossible to provide.

Neutral WB is not impossible Steve - the camera is fully capable of providing it with a calibrated target and in-camera WB

[CDodkin]

5 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Note that many users and photographers are very happy with the actual AWB. Skin tones come out great. 

For post processing you can create your private import profile (what you certainly know very well) so that you get the requested neutral starting position. Just do it.

An example: When I got my Q3 some years ago I did not like its AWB as it was too green (my personal taste). I created that personal import profile so that the imported images look like the ones out of the M11. Since then that issue is forgotten. I import images from the Q3 and they look like the ones from the M11. I do not think about it any more.

Leica indeed would "calibrate" your camera if you wish to have it calibrated. Yes, they do it. A few users here reported about satisfying results. But as you can expect: At the end, what Leica sent back as "calibrated", is a bit this or bit that. It's a never ending thing.

So whatever you wish to get as a customer Leica gave you in the past.

Just one thing they did not do: They did not change the basic and original AWB. There are too many users out there that are quite against that.

And now you have that new feature in the settings: Create your own neutral starting point straight in the camera. Others did it long ago with their import profile.

 

Using post processing as described  to 'fix' the issue, is again applying a fixed offset to a variable tint problem - so no it doesn't address the problem, because the amount of magenta tint varies depending on the lighting conditions when the photo was taken.

[CDodkin]

5 hours ago, don daniel said:

On what personal experience is this assessment based, that the problem is not solved? For years, I have criticized the M11’s white balance. I now consider the problem solved. In different lighting situations, I am getting very good results with both AWB and the fixed settings: The magenta cast is a thing of the past. For me, this matter is settled.

If applying a fixed magenta offset was all that was required, we could all have done this is post processing 3 years ago, and the issue would have been settled. But we couldn't do that, because the magenta variance changes depending on the lighting conditions at the time of the shot.

So explain to me how a fixed offset in the camera fixes the problem.

[CDodkin]

5 hours ago, jakontil said:

Of course they could make it permanent fix by not letting users to customize it, end of story

but they didnt, instead they give options.. cant always make everyone happy but im sure majority will justified 

 

I'm talking about fixing the AWB to be more accurate in the camera - not fixing the magenta tint offset

[don daniel]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb CDodkin:

I'm talking about fixing the AWB to be more accurate in the camera - not fixing the magenta tint offset

I do not have to explain that. I have adjusted the white balance pre-setting in my M11 and I use it. Did you try with yours?

[CDodkin]

27 minutes ago, don daniel said:

I do not have to explain that. I have adjusted the white balance pre-setting in my M11 and I use it. Did you try with yours?

Yep - and I'll be sticking with doing in-camera WB with a target as before.

Expected you wouldn't be able to explain why an offset works now, when it didn't before - thanks for making my point for me.

Edited Wednesday at 02:24 PM by CDodkin

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, CDodkin said:

we could all have done this is post processing 3 years ago,

I thought we had. It was an easy tweak but still nice to be able to tweak in camera.

People wanted Leica to address the 'magenta tint'  in camera. Leica have done this with a very elegant solution. But somehow we can continue complain. Really?

[CDodkin]

3 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I thought we had. It was an easy tweak but still nice to be able to tweak in camera.

People wanted Leica to address the 'magenta tint'  in camera. Leica have done this with a very elegant solution. But somehow we can continue complain. Really?

Unfortunately it wasn't an 'easy tweak' - because the magenta offset kept changing depending on the conditions/location when the photo was taken. That's why this thread is still alive in October 2025.

I get that everyone want's to press the 'easy button' - and I applaud Leica for at least making a token effort to placate their M11 owners.

[pedaes]

4 minutes ago, CDodkin said:

it wasn't an 'easy tweak'

It was on a calibrated screen! What is the issue.? What is different to adjusting exposure, shadows, contrast etc etc. It is just another slider, there to use to achieve the look you want in your print. 

 

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[CDodkin]

5 hours ago, pedaes said:

It was on a calibrated screen! What is the issue.? What is different to adjusting exposure, shadows, contrast etc etc. It is just another slider, there to use to achieve the look you want in your print. 

 

A calibrated screen doesn't effect the WB tint offset changing depending on the shooting conditions - you seem confused as to what's changing and when.

Edited Wednesday at 07:44 PM by CDodkin