Regular M11 camera bodies discontinued?

[maidenfan84]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I was looking around at some of the Leica stores online just to browse a bit and was surprised to see the regular M11 is discontinued? I thought they would still be sold alongside the M11-P? 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[steveBK]

Adds fuel to the theory theres some sort of a hardware change inside the M11P (and possibly newer produced M11 bodies) ?

[DadDadDaddyo]

 

Hmm...

No such indication at B&H or Adorama, at least as of now. Where's the listing shown above from?

It might be too soon to leap on an explanation or conclusion just yet. Let's find out more.

Edited November 12, 2023 by DadDadDaddyo

[maidenfan84]

Displayed on the Leica Miami website  

[DadDadDaddyo]

Is it just the Silver model or the Black also?

[maidenfan84]

Black shows as out of stock, but not discontinued. 

[hepcat]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Leicausa.com still shows both models of M11 as still current models.  As of tonight anyway.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Now the black M11's are gone, but silver M11 still shows as available.  Since the two models are almost the same inside (only one new chip is acknowledged, plus the larger internal memory in the -P), Leica could continue to supply both.  But I doubt that they intend to.  They can still be found in some stores after intensive treasure hunting, but my assumption is that there could be additional unreliable components that have been improved in the 11-P, and the tiny price difference is reasonable.

[adan]

Leica is a small company. They tend to build everything in "batches." 1000 M-11s, and then 1000 M11-Ms, and then 1000 M11s, and then 2000 M-11Ps, and so on. And sequentially, not simulaneously.

Those batches are scheduled, up to a year or more ahead of time. So that Portugal (and Wetzlar) know when and how many parts/modules will need to arrive in what particular month.

It is very likely that there was a hiatus in assembling "plain" M11 cameras while stocks of the M11-P were built up.

Leica may have thought there were enough new M11s "out there," in their own stock, and with dealers, to cover a production gap. But sometimes Leica guesses wrong.

(Same applies to lenses - Leica is not continously making every lens type in the catalog. They make 15-month's worth of 90 Summicrons, and then 15-month's worth of 35 Summicrons, and so on, cycling back to another (pre-scheduled) batch of 90 Summicrons maybe 12-15 months later. And occasionally Leica guesses wrong there also, and one lens type or another sells out and is unavailable until the next scheduled batch comes around).

Batches may also be limited to one finish or another, for efficiency. Especially since black and silver M11s use different coating materials/processes.

But it is certainly possible, if black M11s are (hypothetically) outselling silver M11s 10:1, that Leica doesn't think making any more silver cameras is the best use of valuable worker time. The extra weight of the silver M11s may - or may not - be a factor there.

[dkmoore]

1 minute ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Now the black M11's are gone, but silver M11 still shows as available.  Since the two models are almost the same inside (only one new chip is acknowledged, plus the larger internal memory in the -P), Leica could continue to supply both.  But I doubt that they intend to.  They can still be found in some stores after intensive treasure hunting, but my assumption is that there could be additional unreliable components that have been improved in the 11-P, and the tiny price difference is reasonable.

Well, not reasonable if M11s still have freeze issues and leica doesn’t replace like they did the M9 M sensor. 
 

To add, the m9m resolution was way late.  Leica should make this right. But, I am not sure they will. 

[dkmoore]

2 minutes ago, adan said:

Leica is a small company. They tend to build everything in "batches." 1000 M-11s, and then 1000 M11-Ms, and then 1000 M11s, and then 2000 M-11Ps, and so on. And sequentially, not simulaneously.

Those batches are scheduled, up to a year or more ahead of time. So that Portugal (and Wetzlar) know when and how many parts/modules will need to arrive in what particular month.

It is very likely that there was a hiatus in assembling "plain" M11 cameras while stocks of the M11-P were built up.

Leica may have thought there were enough new M11s "out there," in their own stock, and with dealers, to cover a production gap. But sometimes Leica guesses wrong.

(Same applies to lenses - Leica is not continously making every lens type in the catalog. They make 15-month's worth of 90 Summicrons, and then 15-month's worth of 35 Summicrons, and so on, cycling back to another (pre-scheduled) batch of 90 Summicrons maybe 12-15 months later. And occasionally Leica guesses wrong there also, and one lens type or another sells out and is unavailable until the next scheduled batch comes around).

Batches may also be limited to one finish or another, for efficiency. Especially since black and silver M11s use different coating materials/processes.

But it is certainly possible, if black M11s are (hypothetically) outselling silver M11s 10:1, that Leica doesn't think making any more silver cameras is the best use of valuable worker time. The extra weight of the silver M11s may - or may not - be a factor there.

This has no determining factor of a product being labeled as discontinued.  If a camera far out sold original projections, they would make more. Leica isn’t that small of a company anymore. 
 

[scott kirkpatrick]

15 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Well, not reasonable if M11s still have freeze issues and leica doesn’t replace ...

Freeze issues have been narrowed down steadily by firmware corrections, and replacement of units with buggy hardware.  Leica doesn't talk about either item, and the M11-P may have been manufactured under tighter specifications.  I have an M11 and an M11-P, and they both perform the same.  No freezes, unless I intentionally jam it through shooting immediately after a power-on, or while shifting from shooting to review.  So my normal practices do not lead to freezes any more.

And Leica is certainly still a small company.  Annual M sales are a few 10,000s of units.

Edited November 12, 2023 by scott kirkpatrick

[lct]

Glad to keep my freeze-free regular M11. Works so well that i will keep it to complement the EVF-M, if any.

Edited November 12, 2023 by lct

[Viv]

My Friendly Local Dealer has the "regular" M11 in stock.

[Jewl]

Wouldn‘t this be a very short product lifecycle then if you compare it to the M10? 

And, if they do it due to faulty parts that need to be replaced that are causing issues, wouldn‘t then a recall be required?

[dkmoore]

9 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

Freeze issues have been narrowed down steadily by firmware corrections, and replacement of units with buggy hardware.  Leica doesn't talk about either item, and the M11-P may have been manufactured under tighter specifications.  I have an M11 and an M11-P, and they both perform the same.  No freezes, unless I intentionally jam it through shooting immediately after a power-on, or while shifting from shooting to review.  So my normal practices do not lead to freezes any more.

And Leica is certainly still a small company.  Annual M sales are a few 10,000s of units.

$450m revenue in 2022 for Leica Camera. I guess it boils down to definitions. 

[Photoworks]

14 hours ago, steveBK said:

Adds fuel to the theory theres some sort of a hardware change inside the M11P (and possibly newer produced M11 bodies) ?

Of course, did you hear of the credential clip?

[steveBK]

5 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Of course, did you hear of the credential clip?

Yes of course.. I mean aside from that 🙂

A lot of people suspect some sort of silent update of a troublesome component in the M11 line..

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[algrove]

16 hours ago, lct said:

Glad to keep my freeze-free regular M11. Works so well that i will keep it to complement the EVF-M, if any.

I'm with you and this freeze continuity is so over reported IMHO. I know about 50 other M11 users (some with 2 M11 and an M11M) and none have had a freeze.

[hjddd]

50 minutes ago, algrove said:

我同意你的观点，恕我直言，这种冻结的连续性被过度报道了。我认识大约 50 个其他 M11 用户（其中一些拥有 2 个 M11 和一个 M11M），但没有一个用户出现过冻结现象。

My M11-P produced 2 broken DNGs in its first 40 shots。 The new firmware is bullshit