Pls convince me the 10-r is not worth it…

[Olaf_ZG]

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… till this Wednesday.

Cause on Wednesday I will visit my dealer who made me a great offer for this camera.

I settled down with three cameras: the 10m for b/w, the 2s for color and an old rolleiflex for film. All is covered. Yet, though the SL is great, it will never be my grab it for a walk or even small trip camera. The SL is there when needed with a purpose.

The Q is too wide. A member currently being banned whispered me that a 50mm Q will be. It would be a great camera. Instead of waiting I could buy a 10-r. It’s still new and the offer is great.

If I buy it, it will eat my savings which I currently have for the SL3 or 50mm Q. Pls tell me I am crazy and should not bother/think of the 10-r.

[nicci78]

Go for it M10-R is awesome. 50mm M lenses are awesomer😙 

did I helped ? 😇

Edited October 20, 2023 by nicci78

[Olaf_ZG]

18 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Go for it M10-R is awesome. 50mm M lenses are awesomer😙 

did I helped ? 😇

I expected you to point me towards a Q as you like that one…

[MaticB]

I hardly believe in Q/50mm - 35mm with cropping capacity toward tele-lens would be more reasonable. I had Q2 and although I was very enthusiastic at the beginning, big prints never quite satisfied me. Yes, camera is very tempting with its size, nice design, quality of materials, autofocus, and so on, but there is something in its files forming... or it is just my illusion... Whatever, I have now M10R, alongside with M11Mono and a couple of nice lenses and would never go back! Files from M10R are excellent, but even files from M240, which I put-in for M11Mono, were prettier for my taste in comparison them with Q2...

[DrM]

You're crazy and should not bother/think of the 10-r. 

[hepcat]

2 hours ago, DrM said:

You're crazy and should not bother/think of the 10-r. 

+1  😁

[benqui]

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Some days ago I had the possibility to buy a 10-r and I did it!! Really a wonderful camera, great colors……Instead of wasting your time here in the forum, you should go to your dealer to get the 10-r. I am sure you need it

[RexGig0]

I am holding onto what M cameras I have, M10 (original version) and M Type 246 Monochrom. I tell myself that lenses are more important than more megapixels. I added two new lenses, in 2023, a Steel Rim “Re-Edition,” and a Cosina Voigtlander APO Lanthar 50mm VM, which cost a bit less than would a pre-owned M10-R, at the time. One “character” lens, and one modern/“perfect” lens. Both are absolutely wonderful, each in its own ways. These are the last lenses that I will be able to justify buying, for a VERY long time, into the foreseeable future, which is also true of the prospect of adding another camera.

My greater temptation has been the M10 Monochrom rather than an M10-R, though now and then, a pre-owned, silver-tone M10-R has sorely tempted me. 

I keep reminding myself that a higher-resolution sensor places demands upon my aging body to hold steadier, and/or to keep shutter speeds quite notably higher. (My DSLR shooting has enabled the use of lenses with Canon Image Stabilization and Nikon Vibration Reduction, a option that does not exist with Leica M.)

Having said all of the this, the heart wants what the heart wants. My successful resistance to upgrading beyond the original M10 should not be taken as what anyone else “should” do, or not do.

[Wandering Photographer]

I have an M10-R and an M11. The software on the M10-R is solid, the M11 periodically locks up and I need to turn the camera off and back on.  My M10-R is still in alignment but the floating image in the M11 range finder is now slightly miss aligned in the vertical direction even though I have had the M10-R longer and taken many more photos with it. They both take excellent photos. The only thing about the M10-R is if you have it on all day, you will go through 2 or 3 batteries. I would recommend getting 4 batteries if you are going to use it all day, especially if you have the Visoflex finder.

[jakontil]

M10R aint worth it!! 
happy? 🤪🤪🤪

considering u have the SL and u said it yourself aint for grab, that is where the M excells, and the R just a beautiful reliable camera for streets

[dpitt]

14 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

If I buy it, it will eat my savings which I currently have for the SL3 or 50mm Q. Pls tell me I am crazy and should not bother/think of the 10-r.

I can relate, although my gear is older than yours.

I have a SL(601) and even a TL2 which is the most modern sensor that I use.
And I still grab my old and trusty M9 most of the time. 'Only' 18MP and best at ISO 160. But still about the same weight as the TL2 with a small M lens. The M9 is more compact than the TL2 with EVF. And of course, I love the RF experience. My Leica SL is so big and heavy that it does not even compete,  even with a M lens mounted, and certainly with a SL zoom.

I think that even if I had a SL3 with whatever improvements over my SL, it would never compete with my M9. Size matters... And RF matters equally. I would love some extra MP to give more room for cropping, but the use of any M (IMO) is to travel light and shoot in a instinctive, quick and natural way. And I feel that 24MP would be plenty for that use. If I go higher in resolution I am afraid that it will push me away from this simple way of shooting, forcing me to think about shutter time, focus and body shake more than I do now. I think this  elaborate, thoughtful way of using a camera is more suited for my SL system. I accepted the fact that my M9 will never do all things for me, but what it does well is so unique that no other system can replace it. Eventually I would maybe upgrade to a M10, to get access to occasional use of a EVF and better low light performance.

Recently, I was offered the opportunity to trade up my M9 for a M11, but I declined for the reasons above.

My advice:
Consider buying a M10 in stead of M10R. I think the M10 will give you the perfect, compact and easy to use color camera, without breaking the bank.
It will delay your plans for a SL3 a bit, but not too much I hope.

I think the M10 would give you so much joy that you can skip a few M generations without too much GAS. If you need more resolution and high(er) ISO performance on occasion, I am sure the SL3 will provide that even more than the M10R.

YMMV

Edited October 21, 2023 by dpitt

[lucy63]

14 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I expected you to point me towards a Q as you like that one…

Get the Q!..it's so simple to shoot with, I can pass it to my husband to use.

[hoolyproductions]

Not the advice you were looking for but I recently got an M11 to complement my SL2/S system.

I got into SL2 in 2021 and was so enamoured with it I didn't use my Leica M10 for many months, ended up selling it. A year ago I decided I wanted something smaller for more casual photography and travelling light, so I got a Q2. Long story short I think it's a fabulous camera - form, function, aesthetics and output, but I rarely used it and always had some reason or other to take the SL2/S instead (mostly related to the 28mm lens). I got great pictures when I did use it but for me it just didn't inspire me to use it enough. I very much  like using all the different focal lengths but am a 50mm shooter at heart.

I've had the M11 for about a month, so am very much still in the honeymoon period, but I'm very happy with the decision. With a smaller lens it weighs about the same as the Q2 and even with a 50mm Summilux it still weighs about the same as the SL2 body only. I've no doubt I'll be using it most of the time for the foreseeable future, using my SL2/S when I need the versatility/IBIS/superb viewfinder in very low light. I think I've already got more 'keepers' with the M11 from a month of shooting than I got with my Q2 in a year.

Tonight I'm shooting a gypsy jazz orchestra in a fairly big venue and I'll be using the SL2/S, I'm hoping the lighting will be good enough to use my 24-90mm and I'm taking a couple of SL APOs in case not.

[dpitt]

2 hours ago, hoolyproductions said:

I've had the M11 for about a month, so am very much still in the honeymoon period, but I'm very happy with the decision. With a smaller lens it weighs about the same as the Q2 and even with a 50mm Summilux it still weighs about the same as the SL2 body only. I've no doubt I'll be using it most of the time for the foreseeable future, using my SL2/S when I need the versatility/IBIS/superb viewfinder in very low light. I think I've already got more 'keepers' with the M11 from a month of shooting than I got with my Q2 in a year.

Exactly. The Q series is good in his own right, but it has its own limitations.

The Q form factor and weight can not compete with any M + tiny M lens.
Any M also brings RF + versatility in FL.

IMO, it is personal which M it needs to be to make you prefer it to the Q or SL. As I grow older, size matters more to me. Carrying the SL for a long walk is no option and a Q , CL or TL2 would need an extra bag. The M just goes in my coat pocket when not in use.

2 hours ago, lucy63 said:

Get the Q!..it's so simple to shoot with, I can pass it to my husband to use.

😀 Agreed, the Q has advantages too... In the compactness category it is not bad, but it still is a camera or bag that you take with you. Or hang around your neck.

The M is in a different league. I just put it in my coat pocket, and other than a little bit of weight, I can forget it is there. If you take the IQ, RF and versatility into account, I do not see equal alternatives anywhere.

Edited October 21, 2023 by dpitt

[otto.f]

13 hours ago, benqui said:

Some days ago I had the possibility to buy a 10-r and I did it!! Really a wonderful camera, great colors……Instead of wasting your time here in the forum, you should go to your dealer to get the 10-r. I am sure you need it

I don’t know what a PI is but when Benqui says this I would listen to me too: the M10-R has the best colors of an M since the M9

Edited October 21, 2023 by otto.f

[nicci78]

It you want a 50mm just buy a 50mm. Cropping the Q, Q2 or Q3 is just dumb. No matter how many megapixels it may have. A 28mm is a 28mm. 
If you want an M. Just buy an M. 
Waiting for a 50mm Q is just like waiting for a unicorn in a fairy tale. It won’t happen.

M10-R sensor is awesome. So go for it.  

Edited October 22, 2023 by nicci78

[st4u]

Am 20.10.2023 um 19:58 schrieb Olaf_ZG:

… till this Wednesday.

Cause on Wednesday I will visit my dealer who made me a great offer for this camera.

I settled down with three cameras: the 10m for b/w, the 2s for color and an old rolleiflex for film. All is covered. Yet, though the SL is great, it will never be my grab it for a walk or even small trip camera. The SL is there when needed with a purpose.

The Q is too wide. A member currently being banned whispered me that a 50mm Q will be. It would be a great camera. Instead of waiting I could buy a 10-r. It’s still new and the offer is great.

If I buy it, it will eat my savings which I currently have for the SL3 or 50mm Q. Pls tell me I am crazy and should not bother/think of the 10-r.

Hello Olaf_ZG,

Go for the M10-R and don´t think about!

but, because of the Megapixels

... the old vintage lenses show its limitations.

... you need a steady hand, less than 1/f will be difficult

... you may sell your M10M, as there are people and tests telling that the M10-R with after processing in b&w is almost as good as the M10M 

good luck

 

Chris

Edited October 23, 2023 by st4u

[bcorton]

Hi Olaf, 

About a year and half ago, I traded in most of my Leica gear (R9/dmr system, M6, TL2 system) and bought a lightly used M10-R and some lenses.  I have no regrets. 

I use my (mostly Mandler) m lenses with it and couldn’t be happier with their performance. I do have some newer lenses, but even peeping at pixels it’s silly to choose between them. The old lenses are stellar with that sensor. 

At the beginning, I worried that camera shake would be an issue when hand holding the camera (I’m a 65-year old with rheumatoid arthritis in my hands—it’s well managed so far, but still . . . I’ve lost strength).  Gratefully, shake hasn’t been an issue either.  Digital negatives rarely show blurred pixels. I feel no need for any kind of image stabilization which amazes me; I thought I would.

This is my experience.  I haven’t owned a Q, although I admit it is a very desirable camera.  But I think the M10-R is far more versatile for my ways of image making.  Best of luck deciding.  (You didn’t REALLY want us to talk you out of the M10-R now did you?) 😉

Brent

[Olaf_ZG]

19 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Wednesday is near.
 

Wednesday is near indeed. This weekend I went for a walk with the SL and a m-lens. The combo is nice to carry, especially being used to the SL lenses. It is also nice to see instant feedback through the EVF.

But then, this morning I picked up the m10m. The camera sits just perfect in my hands.

Both systems are great, and having both a SL and monochrom should be sufficient.

My mind is not yet made up.

btw, @RexGig0 your comment is a very great one. Thanks.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Olaf_ZG]

So, tomorrow I will cross two borders to visit my dealer 😇. I decided to pass on his offer, despite being really great and despite the m10r being for sure a great camera.

Reasons:

1. Except for its handling, I am not sure if I will get better images than with my SL2-s

2. Simplicity of my mind (not to be underestimated): SL = color, M = b/w. Based on this I pick my camera, a color M will make decisions tougher to me.

3. Paying 5k+ for a camera can also give me some great lenses, which for sure might give me better, or at least different (pov) images than a new cam. @RexGig0 might be spot on.

Last but not least, if I really want a m10-r, with coming release of the 11p, secondhand market will offer enough. Nothing bad about buying used.

Thanks all for your feedback. It’s what I like about LUF.