M11 service problems: a sign of bigger underlying issues

[Photojoejoe21]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Quick update on the M11 repair -

It came back with leatherette misaligned, so I sent it back for a rework. Got the camera back in about a week and a half, appreciate the speedy rework, but leatherette is still misaligned, and now there's an additional issue in that the rangefinder is out of spec. The image is now fuzzy and appears to be front focusing by about 3/4 of an inch.

Very frustrating because the service rep who I was working with asked where the issue was, and so I sent her photos from before I had ever sent the camera in to NJ Service, so basically as new from Germany, and and then photographs which showed the exact area and issue where the leatherette was misaligned. And it came back partially fixed, but still misaligned.

I understand sometimes shipping a rangefinder can throw it out of spec, so that might not be Leica NJ's fault at all.

Also incredibly disappointing because Leica NJ is lying about what they are fixing on their invoices. I accidentally made a blemish in the leatherette the first time I got it back when it was misaligned because I tried to "smush" it back into the right place. That blemish is still on the leatherette, despite Leica claiming they replaced it on the most recent invoice.

To their credit, the communication with them is fantastic. Usually get a reply within a day when you email some one at the NJ facility. But their techs are absolutely awful. This is embarrassing, an extraordinarily disappointing. Bought my first M11 brand new four months ago, and have been trying to resolve issues with it ever since and it's still not 100% there.

Sending a camera in to service should not mean you concede to have the cosmetic condition and/or functionality of the camera compromised. If Leica NJ cannot repair equipment to bring it back to original manufacturing specs then they have no business repairing cameras.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Photojoejoe21

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jigesh]

This is beyond frustrating. Sorry. Hopefully your issues are resolved soon to your satisfaction.

[petereprice]

2 hours ago, Photojoejoe21 said:

Quick update on the M11 repair -

It came back with leatherette misaligned, so I sent it back for a rework. Got the camera back in about a week and a half, appreciate the speedy rework, but leatherette is still misaligned, and now there's an additional issue in that the rangefinder is out of spec. The image is now fuzzy and appears to be front focusing by about 3/4 of an inch.

Very frustrating because the service rep who I was working with asked where the issue was, and so I sent her photos from before I had ever sent the camera in to NJ Service, so basically as new from Germany, and and then photographs which showed the exact area and issue where the leatherette was misaligned. And it came back partially fixed, but still misaligned.

I understand sometimes shipping a rangefinder can throw it out of spec, so that might not be Leica NJ's fault at all.

Also incredibly disappointing because Leica NJ is lying about what they are fixing on their invoices. I accidentally made a blemish in the leatherette the first time I got it back when it was misaligned because I tried to "smush" it back into the right place. That blemish is still on the leatherette, despite Leica claiming they replaced it on the most recent invoice.

To their credit, the communication with them is fantastic. Usually get a reply within a day when you email some one at the NJ facility. But their techs are absolutely awful. This is embarrassing, an extraordinarily disappointing. Bought my first M11 brand new four months ago, and have been trying to resolve issues with it ever since and it's still not 100% there.

Sending a camera in to service should not mean you concede to have the cosmetic condition and/or functionality of the camera compromised. If Leica NJ cannot repair equipment to bring it back to original manufacturing specs then they have no business repairing cameras.

This sounds like a nightmare, and outlines how underprepared the service seems to be.  I just bought a Leica M11-P and knock on wood, it's working fine, but god forbid, there was an issue, I don't know what I would do if I had this much happening to my camera, after putting down 10,000 dollars for a camera body.  Have you tried escalation to a management entity over there?  At this point, they need to comp you for this in some way or another.  To me, they should just give you a whole new body, rather than continue messing with the one that keeps getting busted up.

[LeicaR10]

Photojoejoe21,  Thanks for the update.  Quite frustrating for you.  Personally, I would be back on the phone with NJ, explain the issues and ask for a Re-re-work label.  All reworks do go to the front of the line for service.  I would enclose photos again of the misalignment issue and tell them the rangefinder is now out.  As you wrote, it could be due to shipping.  Then again, I put my M cameras in airline check baggage all the time and never had an issue...knock on wood.  When you spend $9+ K on a camera body, it should be pristine cosmetically and mechanically.  Leica will make it right...unfortunately, it will take time.  Wish your next update is a total success.  r/ Mark

[setuporg]

23 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

put my M cameras in airline check baggage all the time

This is terrifying.  Both of my Rimowa carryons were checked at one time or other because of small bins or an extra bag.  They both were smashed, with deep dents and a round corner of each flattened.  These are rigid aluminum boxes.  I’d never ever check in gear.  In the worst case get a vest and put all things in the pockets, hanging.  But normally a dedicated personal photo bag.  Found a very cool Boundary solution with a photo beg nested inside a sturdy and efficient backpack with a side door, detachable as a small bag at destination.  

Also given what @Al Brown said about the new 35 Steel Rim Lux QC problems, it all adds up…

Edited November 8, 2023 by setuporg

[LeicaR10]

Setuporg,  I take valium when I check my camera gear....LOL.   All kidding aside, I use a Pelican case for my M gear.  The gear has so far for over 20 years not been molested by the airline bag handlers.  I use to lock my cases, but don't bother with that either....knock on wood.  I do have a Hadley 20/20 Pro bag for short flights.  Of course I am nearly 70 and had to cut the weight significantly due to creeping lower back issues from my military parachuting days. All said, valium does work.  Last, I enjoy reading your posts too.  r/ Mark

[Photojoejoe21]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Follow up - received a call from Leica NJ. The person I spoke to was awesome. She apologized for everything that's going on and said they'll send out a replacement camera next week!

[petereprice]

2 hours ago, Photojoejoe21 said:

Follow up - received a call from Leica NJ. The person I spoke to was awesome. She apologized for everything that's going on and said they'll send out a replacement camera next week!

That is incredibly reassuring!  I'm glad you have it all sorted out.  Your situation definitely calls for a replacement camera, so I'm glad they did the right thing.  But this is all good info to know, and be prepared for, so thank you for sharing!  I feel a bit better now, hearing that you got a resolution.  I have to admit, you had me questioning my M11-P purchase!  

[Patrickfoley@mac.com]

Leica have now swapped my M11 for a new one. The only alternative was to send the camera back to Germany, for what would probably be another 5 months. They could see that that was unacceptable.  Here’s hoping the new one behaves better (the store assistant made an interesting remark in passing; she suggested that a 2023 manufactured M11 would be better than a 2022 one…).

[Photojoejoe21]

You bet! I'm also hoping, like you Patrick, that they will send me a newer one. Both of my M11s so far were produced middle of 2022-ish. IDK if newer ones are more reliable but, hopefully between a new M11 and the new firmware update the freezing issues will be gone.

 

Has anyone who was experiencing freezes noticed it has gotten better with 2.0.1 firmware update?

 

EDIT: This whole experience, however, has made me wonder about if maybe I should just stick with film Leicas since they're so much more simple and less to go wrong. The new M6 looks mighty fine...but film prices yo

Edited November 10, 2023 by Photojoejoe21

[londond]

11 hours ago, Photojoejoe21 said:

You bet! I'm also hoping, like you Patrick, that they will send me a newer one. Both of my M11s so far were produced middle of 2022-ish. IDK if newer ones are more reliable but, hopefully between a new M11 and the new firmware update the freezing issues will be gone.

 

Has anyone who was experiencing freezes noticed it has gotten better with 2.0.1 firmware update?

 

EDIT: This whole experience, however, has made me wonder about if maybe I should just stick with film Leicas since they're so much more simple and less to go wrong. The new M6 looks mighty fine...but film prices yo

I won’t repeat posts on other threads about freezing issues with both my M11 and M11M.  But to my answer to your question would be “quite the reverse - my freeze issues seem to have been introduced by the 2.0.1 firmware update” 

[petereprice]

17 hours ago, Photojoejoe21 said:

You bet! I'm also hoping, like you Patrick, that they will send me a newer one. Both of my M11s so far were produced middle of 2022-ish. IDK if newer ones are more reliable but, hopefully between a new M11 and the new firmware update the freezing issues will be gone.

 

Has anyone who was experiencing freezes noticed it has gotten better with 2.0.1 firmware update?

 

EDIT: This whole experience, however, has made me wonder about if maybe I should just stick with film Leicas since they're so much more simple and less to go wrong. The new M6 looks mighty fine...but film prices yo

From what I read and have experienced myself some of the freezing is just random but some of the freezing has to do with what SD card you use.  Apparently the M11 uses a dated UHS-II spec so certain cards even if they are the fastest and widely used may trigger a freeze of the camera.  I think firmware in the past has improved it but to some people who have pointed this, the new firmware may have caused it to come back again.  I can say from my experience I owned the M11 for about a month and a half and had two freezes.  I upgraded to the M11-P recently, hoping it overcame what might be design flaws, but I experienced a freeze while shooting an assignment. The good news is it’s an easy fix by popping the battery in and out and you don’t lose images but yeah not great for a $9000 camera.

And yeah I have thought the same thing about just using film M bodies.  I have the M6 2022 reissue and it’s fantastic!  And no matter how great the M11 is in features I still like the M6 a lot better!

 

[Pekoni]

On 10/16/2023 at 12:09 PM, Al Brown said:

Because Leica is a tiny company compared to Canon with 1% of camera market share. Not defending sloppy service, just putting things in perspective.

Never have a problem with my Ferrari. 

[High_n_Dry]

6 hours ago, Pekoni said:

Never have a problem with my Ferrari. 

My Ferrari sucked. How many miles/yr do you put on that thing?

[Krzysztof]

Ehh yeah, similar story here. I had lots of random freezes and now after firmware 2.01 I noticed that random "no lens" warning and shutter closing sound. Maybe that was happening before too, but the shutter wasn't closing automatically on old firmware so I didn't know what was happening.  My main lens was that cheap old thing.... brand new 35 APO  Well I had it, I just send it for a repair. Will see how that goes... but after reading this thread, ohhh boy...

[fsprow]

I hate to be an alter ego but my early 2022 M11 has been spectacular. The resolution is so good I sold my Hasselblad  H6D and large prints have great dynamic range and fine detail. I have updated the firmware each time and the camera has over 10,000 exposures. Never a problem of any kind (shutter, dropouts requiring battery removal …).  It happily uses any and all SD cards. 

Maybe this will all change tomorrow but this is my experience to date. 

[Malvolio]

7 hours ago, fsprow said:

I hate to be an alter ego but my early 2022 M11 has been spectacular. The resolution is so good I sold my Hasselblad  H6D and large prints have great dynamic range and fine detail. I have updated the firmware each time and the camera has over 10,000 exposures. Never a problem of any kind (shutter, dropouts requiring battery removal …).  It happily uses any and all SD cards. 

Maybe this will all change tomorrow but this is my experience to date. 

Likewise - mid 22 M11 here. No issues whatsoever.

[Fritz Fritz]

September 2022 batch and I've had nothing BUT problems. I get at minimum one freeze per hour of use (taking photos or not) since purchasing in May. 2.0.1 hasn't helped. I also get corrupted DNGs across different SD cards.

Leica Miami told me in May that I should perhaps wait for the next firmware to deal with exchanging it. So I did. Now Miami tells me I'm outside of the window to exchange it with them and it has to go off to Germany for service -- this is insanity. $10k into this thing and Leica could care less. It simply cannot be used in any professional context, and barely in an enjoyment context...

Anyone interested in purchasing a gently used M11 paperweight? 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[opera207]

My m11 occasionally freezes, I sold it, bought m11-p, and used it for a week without any problems.

[Q2dude123]

I also have a quite funny story. I bought a demo M11 (manuf. year is 2022) in A condition with 3 years warranty from Leica direct (from a neighboring country because tax) and when it came, the rangefinder was misaligned and the camera showed the 35mm frame lines when I had a 50mm on and vice versa. It was absolutely weird. Since I had international guarantee I talked to Leica in my country because if they would have a look at it because I thought it would be speedier because I live nearby. They told me to send it in. After one week I received it back with a repair certificate but the problems were still there. A blind person would have seen that the rangefinder is still massively misaligned. I talked to the them and they basically told me that they did their work and everything is be fine now. The further process was unbeatable in arrogance and unfriendliness. They basically told me it is my own fault for buying in another country (but hey, international warranty) and it is what it is now. I was seriously shocked.

After that I talked to Leica in the country where I had it from and they were absolutely great when it comes to service. They took it back, checked it and within two weeks I had a replacement M11 which now works fine. It occasionally freezes but thats like 1 out of 100 times so I can live with that.

But yeah, I never had any issues with my M240, M10-R or Q2. The M11 seems to me especially fragile.