Which M to get?

[Olaf_ZG]

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I have three cameras: the m10m (for b/w obviously), a SL for color and a rolleiflex for MF. For about a year I am thinking to add a m10r, cause I enjoy to photograph with a M, but then, I have a SL already for color.

May be, a film M won’t be a bad thing, as it won’t duplicate what I have.

But honestly, I don’t have a clue about anything before the m8. I do have experience with film (though I will outsource), and I want a M. Metering by the camera is not a must, as I, like with the Rollei, uses a lightmeter if I can’t guess the exposure.

Thanks.

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[kivis]

Get an M-A. You will be living the dream.

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

But honestly, I don’t have a clue about anything before the m8. I do have experience with film (though I will outsource), and I want a M. Metering by the camera is not a must, as I, like with the Rollei, uses a lightmeter if I can’t guess the exposure.

Which lenses do you have, and what is your favourite focal length? Earlier cameras don't have the full set of framelines, but some people prefer this because it can make the finder less cluttered. If you want the full set (28/35/50/75/90/135) you need an M4-P or later.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Anbaric

[Olaf_ZG]

2 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Which lenses do you have, and what is your favourite focal length? Earlier cameras don't have the full set of framelines, but some people prefer this because it can make the finder less cluttered. If you want the full set (28/35/50/75/90/135) you need an M4-P or later.

I have a 24 (need a vf, i know), 35, 50 (fav), 75 and to be 90. I guess, for film, 35/50 will be used 95%.

[Anbaric]

42 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I have a 24 (need a vf, i know), 35, 50 (fav), 75 and to be 90. I guess, for film, 35/50 will be used 95%.

The 35 rules out the M3 (which only has 50/90/135) unless you are prepared to guesstimate or use an accessory finder. The 75 would also rule out the M2, M4, M4-2 and M5 for the same reason. The M4-P, with the complete set of framelines, is similar to the M6 Classic, except that only the latter has a meter. The later M6-TTL also has TTL flash metering (which most people aren't bothered about) as well as a larger shutter speed dial that rotates the same way as on your digital Ms. The M7 is the only other film M with these two features, and is also the only one to have a semi-automatic mode (aperture priority), but note that this also means the shutter is (uniquely) battery-dependent (all other Ms that use batteries only need them to power the meter) and in the future it may be less repairable than the others. The M6 Classic and M6-TTL meters aren't currently repairable if their main circuit boards die, though this may change in the future. Zinc top plates were used in the M4-P, M6 Classic, and M6-TTL - look out for any bubbling or corrosion, which affects some cameras (most are fine).

Of the current cameras, the MP is similar to the M6 Classic, with some improvements like a rangefinder that is less likely to flare out in some situations, a brass top plate, and some retro touches like the old-style wind-on lever and rewind knob (the rewind knob is slower to use than the crank on the M6 and M4 variants, but some people find it more solid). The MP (and later) also returns to the smaller shutter speed dial which, like the one on the M6 Classic and earlier, rotates in the opposite direction to the one on the M6-TTL, M7 and the digitals. The M-A is like an MP with the meter left out - one for the purists (it's no cheaper). The M6 2022 is basically an improved M6 Classic, inheriting the brass top plate and the less flare-prone rangefinder from the MP, but using the fast rewind crank and articulated wind-on lever of the M6. All the current cameras are of course fully repairable, and so I think is the M7 (for now, at a price).

Edited October 2, 2023 by Anbaric

[Olaf_ZG]

@Anbaricthanks for this extended answer.

[Michael Geschlecht]

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5 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I have three cameras: the m10m (for b/w obviously), a SL for color and a rolleiflex for MF. For about a year I am thinking to add a m10r, cause I enjoy to photograph with a M, but then, I have a SL already for color.

May be, a film M won’t be a bad thing, as it won’t duplicate what I have.

But honestly, I don’t have a clue about anything before the m8. I do have experience with film (though I will outsource), and I want a M. Metering by the camera is not a must, as I, like with the Rollei, uses a lightmeter if I can’t guess the exposure.

Thanks.

Hello Olaf,

Because all of the "M" film cameras, including the M5, are pretty much the same in terms of picture taking ability.

1 thing that might make 1 camera preferable to another is: Which are the lenses that you would mostly use with it?

Best Regards,

Michael

[dpitt]

My vote is to go as classic as you can for the lenses that you want to use. So that would be an M2 or M4 if 35mm is enough. An M4-P when you need the 28mm or 75mm, but it does not feel as classic to me as the other 2. If you want a new film M, my only advice is that I would not go for the M6.2 (I think it should be called that). The M6.2 might have the same features as the M6, but using a 40 year old original will always feel different to me. My personal preference is for the simple frame lines of the M2 which is unique in the M series. The M2 was my first M, so that might also have something to do with it.

After the classic M experience, if you need a further challenge, then there is always the Barnack (LTM) series to explore.

Edited October 3, 2023 by dpitt

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

12 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I have three cameras: the m10m (for b/w obviously), a SL for color and a rolleiflex for MF. For about a year I am thinking to add a m10r, cause I enjoy to photograph with a M, but then, I have a SL already for color.

May be, a film M won’t be a bad thing, as it won’t duplicate what I have.

But honestly, I don’t have a clue about anything before the m8. I do have experience with film (though I will outsource), and I want a M. Metering by the camera is not a must, as I, like with the Rollei, uses a lightmeter if I can’t guess the exposure.

Thanks.

Great advice in earlier posts.

What experience would you like? The classic experience of the legendary M3 and M2?
The M4 and M6? The amazing but maligned M5? As you have a digital M, do you want the shutter dials to turn in the same direction? All other film M shutter dials turn in the opposite direction except the M6TTL and M7.

If you’d like immediate familiarity stemming from your M10M, the M7 will be a great choice with the Aperture Priority mode.

It’s my most used film M body. 

Another perspective, based on your lens descriptions:

M3 with 0.91 or MP/M6TTL/M7 with 0.85 finder can’t be beat for 50mm lenses 

M2/M6TTL/M7/MP with 0.58 finder is perfect for 35mm lenses 

The 0.72 is a compromise yet the most versatile VF for 28mm/35mm/50mm/75mm/90mm and 135mm. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by TheGodParticle/Hari

[250swb]

14 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I have three cameras: the m10m (for b/w obviously), a SL for color and a rolleiflex for MF. For about a year I am thinking to add a m10r, cause I enjoy to photograph with a M, but then, I have a SL already for color.

May be, a film M won’t be a bad thing, as it won’t duplicate what I have.

But honestly, I don’t have a clue about anything before the m8. I do have experience with film (though I will outsource), and I want a M. Metering by the camera is not a must, as I, like with the Rollei, uses a lightmeter if I can’t guess the exposure.

Thanks.

Don't be dragged into having a camera for every small niche. I mean an M10M for B&W could be redundant because you can convert colour images from your SL into B&W. Likewise don't be drawn to an M3 which is fantastic for using with a 50mm lens, but that's about the limit of it's fantastic-ness. As you already have a Rollei any Leica with the full set of viewfinder frames would fit the bill, so M4-P onwards. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by 250swb

[rmueller]

Got myself a M-A two years ago, not looking back, up for a second M-A when some of my digital stuff leaves the house. I meter few times a day and then open up or stop down a bit when the current situation feels darker or lighter than where I took the reading, worked well so far, not missing the in-camera meter at all.

But really, up to you, can't do anything wrong but agree with @250swb that I'd probably get a M4-P onwards.

Regards,

Ralf

[LocalHero1953]

Get one of them. Any of them. You will always want one of the others (that's what this forum does), so start anywhere. At random.

[pgk]

5 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Get one of them. Any of them. You will always want one of the others (that's what this forum does), so start anywhere. At random.

The mantra 'less is more' applies well to photography - sometimes. More gear. more choice, more indecision and missed shots. 

I use three systems which are so different that they do not overlap much at all. 

[Jewl]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

Get one of them. Any of them. You will always want one of the others (that's what this forum does), so start anywhere. At random.

Agreed! Got an M10P replaced it by an M11. Wanted a new M6, got it in Nov last year. Replaced it by an MP. Now I want an M6 again as addition (used one) 😂😂

[Fotoklaus]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb TheGodParticle/Hari:

Great advice in earlier posts.

What experience would you like? The classic experience of the legendary M3 and M2?
The M4 and M6? The amazing but maligned M5? As you have a digital M, do you want the shutter dials to turn in the same direction? All other film M shutter dials turn in the opposite direction except the M6TTL and M7.

If you’d like immediate familiarity stemming from your M10M, the M7 will be a great choice with the Aperture Priority mode.

It’s my most used film M body. 

Another perspective, based on your lens descriptions:

M3 with 0.91 or MP/M6TTL/M7 with 0.85 finder can’t be beat for 50mm lenses 

M2/M6TTL/M7/MP with 0.58 finder is perfect for 35mm lenses 

The 0.72 is a compromise yet the most versatile VF for 28mm/35mm/50mm/75mm/90mm and 135mm. 

The 0.58 is a compromise for the 28mm lenses.  The 0,72 is perfect for 35mm and the most used of all variants. The 0.91 is only good for 50mm in my opinion.

[jakontil]

well yeah, any post is good advice here olaf mate, come back to you, if you ever want a M film, what you actually looking for in M film? experience, robustness? aesthetic? 

or may be you have some options in your mind already right now you want to spill ? that would be interesting 

localhero is right, start somewhere, you usually you will want what you dont have in the end 😆

[FrozenInTime]

11 hours ago, rmueller said:

Got myself a M-A two years ago, not looking back, up for a second M-A when some of my digital stuff leaves the house. I meter few times a day and then open up or stop down a bit when the current situation feels darker or lighter than where I took the reading, worked well so far, not missing the in-camera meter at all.

But really, up to you, can't do anything wrong but agree with @250swb that I'd probably get a M4-P onwards.

I'm also on the same page.

The M-A and MP x0.72 or new M6 will see you through to the end of your days.

I do remain wary of the models that deviated away from the baseline : i.e. M5, M6-TTL, M7 and M6 x0.58 and x0.85 viewfinders.

However no harm in trying a few out to see what sticks; if anything, you learn more by taking the journey and not jumping straight to the 'best'

[Ko.Fe.]

If you want closer to the Flex feel, get M2 or M4. With known service history and in known to be working condition. 

Cameras from M3 to M4 where build differently (to be polite) comparing to how they were assembled later on and now.

I had middle child - M3 DS ELC. And it was very impressive comparing to so called "black" bodies. By 2020 it still has its original Midland seal. And it was totally working camera after approximately fifty years. 

If you don't need 28mm, M3 with any 50mm and goggled 35mm is something really awesome, IMO. 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Olaf_ZG]

@250swb though the m10m might be redundant (as the sl can be converted), to me it is not. I really dislike the options I have when converting from color, which makes me indecisive and spending more time behind a computer than I like. So, the monochrom stays.

Regarding niche, you are maybe very right. I have three bases covered: digital bw, digital color and film. Maybe a film leica is redundant for me.

but then, the question from @jakontilis a good one. I quess I would like to have a cam for life. Sounds may be stupid. Till now, every piece of equipment has been sold for upgrades (wise or not), and may be it is just nice to have a piece of kit what becomes part of you.

may be i am sentimental, till now, i am not really material, no cars, no watches, no jewelry. All belongings are to be disposed, except for my (digital) negatives, books and music (though with streaming, even here I don’t care).

may be i just am getting old and want to settle down.

[Ko.Fe.]

23 hours ago, Anbaric said:

The 35 rules out the M3 (which only has 50/90/135) unless you are prepared to guesstimate or use an accessory finder.

 

 🙃 Goggled Summarons are awesome. They show 35 in 50.

And they have much shorter minimal focusing distance.

 

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