M11-D?

[IkarusJohn]

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8 hours ago, Fred Miranda said:

Honestly, I would be thrilled with an M11-D that has the same functionality as the M-D Type 262 without Wi-Fi or menu access, so a step back from the M10-D.

Visoflex live view could be useful for occasions when using Leica's new lenses with shorter MFD and for ultra-wide and telephoto lenses. This should be the only additional feature from the M-D. The main improvements for the M11-D would be a higher resolution/dynamic range sensor, the M11 thin body, 256GB of internal memory, and USB-C support. I'd prefer a mechanical-only shutter, but I understand many people like shooting with the electronic shutter despite the extreme rolling shutter effect. All other functions should remain the same, including metering from the shutter as in the pre-M11 series. It should not be a camera with extra features but rather a simple camera reminiscent of shooting film.

That said, I'm very satisfied with the output from the M-D files. Apart from the higher dynamic range, resolution, and thinner body, I'm not sure it's worth switching.

From checking the leaked manual, Leica is offering way more features than I want for the new "D", so I will likely not get one.

I agree with this, save in relation to WiFi and the Visoflex.

In normal use, the M10-D is exactly as you describe (without the internal memory and USB-C support).  I’m really not that bothered by increased resolution and dynamic range, but will take a simple improvement in them without increased functionality.  I really dislike the electronic shutter on m X2D, but can see why it’s useful from time to time (eg, using M and R mount lenses).  But, in “normal use”, I don’t use or need either the Visoflex or the WiFi connection - it isn’t a negative having that option.

When do I use it / why have it?  The Visoflex is rarely used, but it is useful for those situations where I use longer or wider lenses and close focusing with my 35 APO Summicron or my macro adapter; and if I need to use a different focusing mode off the shutter (rare) or if I need to shift the focusing or metering point and for exposure simulation.  I don’t often need those additional features, but they’re useful - ie, I use them, rather than having them because someone at Leica has decided it’s possible …

As for WiFi, I see it as a no cost benefit.  Having the option doesn’t detract from the purity of the D option.  What do I use it for?  Unlike many assumptions here from time to time, you don’t need it at all.  But, for remote firing of the shutter, I find it very useful.  I haven’t updated the firmware on my cameras with it, nor do I change camera settings with it.  I do sometimes review images with it, say when I’m out and about and I stop for a coffee or a beer.

I use remote apps on my SL, M, TL2 and my X2D - they’re useful, but not obligatory.

I was surprised to find I liked the faux winder on my M10-D - only as a thumb rest.  I would prefer less buttons on the body.

Long post, sorry.  In base use, what I really want is an M60 in an M10 body, with the functionality of WiFi and Visoflex, the faux winder, I could happily lose the baseplate, USB-C and internal storage (time to lose the problematic SD cards?).

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[Datsch]

10 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

 Having the option doesn’t detract from the purity of the D option.

That's a very nice way to put it.

I was initially put off the the WiFi functionality of the M10-D and the M11-D, as it seemed too complex, and might result in menu anxiety ... for example, wondering if I left it in jpg when I now want DNG, and having to tediously boot up a phone and slowly connect and rummage through menus (avoiding menus is my main reason for having a -D!)

However, I am now just thinking about Wifi/Fotos as being 'under the hood'. Hopefully just 'set and forget'. While the physical form of the camera remains pure. Especially the M11-D which does not have a little wifi logo showing like the M10-D does (you simply press and hold the thumbwheel for 12 seconds -- discreet but it seems to me it could be a shorter time as that defeats the benefit of quicker connection time of the M11 vs M10-D ...)

Still, I do like the M-D being able to switch to continuous mode while I raise the camera to my eye, to catch a fox or butterfly or running person, instead of having to find my phone, wait 12 seconds, rummage in menus etc ... But I admit my use of continuous or self timer is extremely rare ... and normal M10 and M11 have these modes buried in a menu too, so it can't bother many people. For sports and action you would have an SL or a big Nikon after all ...

Edited July 16, 2024 by Datsch

[IkarusJohn]

Set and forget is the right way to think of it, in my experience.  Also, DNG only.

[AndreasG]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb IkarusJohn:

Set and forget is the right way to think of it, in my experience.

That is what I do/did. It is around three years ago that last time I changed a setting via the WiFi with my M10-D.

[Derbyshire Man]

On 7/15/2024 at 11:35 AM, Syrjames said:

I also support the metering off the shutter idea.

It makes the camera much more responsive (both in real action but also in 'perceived' feeling and sound) for instant shot and start up.

 

I'd like to see an option for this on any M11 replacement. Ideally with a lower inter shot latency. Where one can chose quick metering via closed shutter and the more fancy if required. For me, speed to readiness and vitally being able to take 4.5 shots per second simply by pressing the shutter button rather than choosing 'a mode' would be great. However I understand there are issues with fitting the light meter into the box.

Edited July 16, 2024 by Derbyshire Man

[ianforber]

4 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Set and forget is the right way to think of it, in my experience.  Also, DNG only.

Aside from the shutter mechanism, most (all?) of the set and forget options and other M11-D absence of capabilities can be achieved by setting and ignoring them on the M11, including never using the rear screen. Is it that not having the option at all is an attraction in itself?

[Fred Miranda]

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6 hours ago, Datsch said:

That's a very nice way to put it.

I was initially put off the the WiFi functionality of the M10-D and the M11-D, as it seemed too complex, and might result in menu anxiety ... for example, wondering if I left it in jpg when I now want DNG, and having to tediously boot up a phone and slowly connect and rummage through menus (avoiding menus is my main reason for having a -D!)

However, I am now just thinking about Wifi/Fotos as being 'under the hood'. Hopefully just 'set and forget'. While the physical form of the camera remains pure. Especially the M11-D which does not have a little wifi logo showing like the M10-D does (you simply press and hold the thumbwheel for 12 seconds -- discreet but it seems to me it could be a shorter time as that defeats the benefit of quicker connection time of the M11 vs M10-D ...)

Still, I do like the M-D being able to switch to continuous mode while I raise the camera to my eye, to catch a fox or butterfly or running person, instead of having to find my phone, wait 12 seconds, rummage in menus etc ... But I admit my use of continuous or self timer is extremely rare ... and normal M10 and M11 have these modes buried in a menu too, so it can't bother many people. For sports and action you would have an SL or a big Nikon after all ...

It's a good point, but the same can be said for having an LCD screen. It's there, but you don't need to use it. However, not having it changes the shooting experience, and that's the main advantage of the "D" models. For this reason, I support removing any menu or Wi-Fi capability. Just like a film camera, making it difficult to see the images changes the way one shoots. At least, that's how it works for me.

I usually use a half case with my M10-R BP that covers the LCD, and I can tell you with certainty that it provides a shooting experience very similar to the M10-D. What's nice about the M-D and the new M11-D is the ISO dial on the back, just like the M-P body.

[jeri]

5 hours ago, Fred Miranda said:

 

I usually use a half case with my M10-R BP that covers the LCD, and I can tell you with certainty that it provides a shooting experience very similar to the M10-D. What's nice about the M-D and the new M11-D is the ISO dial on the back, just like the M-P body.

Agree with the above.

[evikne]

It's too late to make changes to the M11-D, so maybe it's time for someone to create an M12-D wishlist thread? 😉

[setuporg]

On 7/15/2024 at 4:30 AM, Fred Miranda said:

That said, I'm very satisfied with the output from the M-D files. Apart from the higher dynamic range, resolution, and thinner body, I'm not sure it's worth switching.

Exactly the same sentiment with the Edition 60 here.

[IkarusJohn]

7 hours ago, ianforber said:

Aside from the shutter mechanism, most (all?) of the set and forget options and other M11-D absence of capabilities can be achieved by setting and ignoring them on the M11, including never using the rear screen. Is it that not having the option at all is an attraction in itself?

No, not really.  Losing the meter off the shutter means the sensor is always live - that has further consequences.  I guess with all the cropping and variable MP, you can set and forget (like video on my SL), but I have to admit that one of the joys of the M Edition 60 was that there were no options.  The M9 Monochrom is the same - no JPEG.  Perhaps the M10-D appeals to me because I do use WiFi and the EVF, so it is useful.  On the downside, it has buttons (Fn and front) and the thumbwheel that I really do wish had been taken off.

It’s irrational …

[Giulio Zanni]

Any guess whether the M11-D would be compatible with the visoflex? I found a second hand M10-D and would like the compatibility with the visoflex for focus accuracy with the noctilux

[T25UFO]

10 hours ago, Giulio Zanni said:

Any guess whether the M11-D would be compatible with the visoflex? I found a second hand M10-D and would like the compatibility with the visoflex for focus accuracy with the noctilux

Compatible with Visoflex 2 was confirmed in the M11D instructions leaked online.

[Stevejack]

On 7/17/2024 at 4:18 AM, IkarusJohn said:

No, not really.  Losing the meter off the shutter means the sensor is always live - that has further consequences.  I guess with all the cropping and variable MP, you can set and forget (like video on my SL), but I have to admit that one of the joys of the M Edition 60 was that there were no options.  The M9 Monochrom is the same - no JPEG.  Perhaps the M10-D appeals to me because I do use WiFi and the EVF, so it is useful.  On the downside, it has buttons (Fn and front) and the thumbwheel that I really do wish had been taken off.

It’s irrational …

Leica is all about irrationality though right? 😆

Back when the M11 came out I suggested one option could be to offer a metering mode which reverts to the standard "closed>open>close" shutter and do away with metering altogether. Call it the purist mode / legacy mode / M3 mode... whatever. Give that Leica is all about the user experience, and so many were complaining about the sound of the  open>close>open>close>open  shutter sound, I figured that providing an option like that would go some way to keeping more users happy. 

If the M11-D offered a meter-less mode like this, I think it could have been a reasonable compromise but the leakers say no. 

Edited July 18, 2024 by Stevejack

[evikne]

1 hour ago, Stevejack said:

If the M11-D offered a meter-less mode like this, I think it could have been a reasonable compromise but the leakers say no. 

Something to think about for the M12-D!

Edited July 18, 2024 by evikne

[T25UFO]

Sorry for appearing stupid, but what is actually meant by no metering mode?  Are you suggesting a MA / MD, so a purely mechanical camera that captures images digitally?

[Linford]

Where in the hell is this camera? I have the M10D and love it. Let’s get going, Leica!!!—lt

 

 

[fenykepesz]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Linford:

Where in the hell is this camera? I have the M10D and love it. Let’s get going, Leica!!!—lt

 

 

you speak from my bleeding heart...

Edited July 24, 2024 by fenykepesz

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[pwsmith]

No response so I'll pitch in.  "No metering mode" doesn't mean no metering, it just means you have just one mode.   You can't switch between spot and average or whatever.   That is of course how in-camera metering started.   Usually average and once you knew how it worked it was easy to manage.   I  always liked it, rather than fussing around with changing modes.

[Stevejack]

On 7/18/2024 at 6:08 PM, T25UFO said:

Sorry for appearing stupid, but what is actually meant by no metering mode?  Are you suggesting a MA / MD, so a purely mechanical camera that captures images digitally?

No, just that the camera won’t meter the exposure so essentially you’re shooting in manual mode without the camera giving you feedback as to whether you’re over / under exposed. With an EVF it’s not an issue, what you see is what you get. With the range finder you’re relying on sunny-16 or an external meter.