Is the 240 still a good choice to get started with a M?

[espelt]

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vor 50 Minuten schrieb catacore:

my M240 is not capable of doing right all the time

Neither your nor my M240 can do anything. No M can do anything. Like any other camera nothing can. Maybe it looks good. But otherwise? It is possible that this will change in the future. If you add even more little AI. Then maybe you can send the camera off on your own. You can stay in bed. If you want to do something yourself - the M240 is a nice tool for that. You just have to use it. Practice. Do not give up. That's part of the fun. Try to use the camera like a purely analog camera. Ignore automatic. If you really need every picture – use your cell phone. With the M, maybe 10 good pictures a year are a good yield, as it used to be. But those are really your moments that you don't forget...

[sometimesmaybe]

2 hours ago, catacore said:

I like very much the photographic process in itself, that's why I acquired such a camera. That's why I can't photograph using my mobile phone - because I miss the process. 

Unfortunatelly, I was talking about basic stuff, like framing, exposure, white balance - that my M240 is not capable of doing right all the time. I came to not trust my M240 because it fails to deliver what I ask it to deliver. As simple as this: framing, exposure, white balance. Truth is I don't understad why this camera would chose, for instance, a SS of 1/1000 and ISO 2500 in daylight, outdoors, when I set the aperture of my 35mm lens at f/8 - and the result being a blown out picture.

can i suggest you use the EVF to ease yourself into the M. manual ISO and SS

i reckon you'll get a good sense after a little while of how the camera will react and you can gradually transition yourself to the OVF

[catacore]

5 hours ago, espelt said:

Neither your nor my M240 can do anything. No M can do anything. Like any other camera nothing can. Maybe it looks good. But otherwise? It is possible that this will change in the future. If you add even more little AI. Then maybe you can send the camera off on your own. You can stay in bed. If you want to do something yourself - the M240 is a nice tool for that. You just have to use it. Practice. Do not give up. That's part of the fun. Try to use the camera like a purely analog camera. Ignore automatic. If you really need every picture – use your cell phone. With the M, maybe 10 good pictures a year are a good yield, as it used to be. But those are really your moments that you don't forget...

Thank you for your insightful comment, I'm so sorry we have reached this point of explanations. I have nothing to add to this thread, really.

[jto555]

I am using M240s professionally. No issues they do the job very well. With the new Adobe Denoise AI filter I can now happily shoot at one (maybe two...) stops under exposed at 6400 ISO if the need calls for it. In effect shooting at 25,600 ISO. I have also being using an M11 for the past 6 weeks and yes that camera is an improvement but NOBODY notices any difference. No client has come back to me to say that the photographs are now any better or even different. For now I won't be investing over €17,000 in two new bodies because for me there is no return in investment for me, at this stage. 

 

The advantages with the M240 over the M10 and M11 are:

The battery lasts longer.

One just for me. I have the Leica Grip and Flash accessory so I can put a flash transmitter, for off camera flash, on the camera and still use the EVF. - Really important this one!

A camera level display on the screen.

 

Err, not much else. 

 

The OP also mentioned colour, could I ask have you profiled your cameras? That will help to minimise any colour difference between cameras. I use ColorChecker Camera Calibration. It works with Photoshop and Lightroom.

 

J

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregm61]

Going to visit my daughter and her family tomorrow and have my Fogg B Major bag filled with an MP240 with 35/1.4 FLE mounted, 21mm f3.4 SEM, 75mm f2 APO to round out a three-lens trio, and an M246 Monochrome with 50mm f2 (ver. 5) fitted with a yellow filter and 28mm f2 ASPH and 90mm f2.8 Elmarit-M, both also fitted with yellow filters.

The 75mm and 90mm lenses both are excellently calibrated for the two bodies they’re mated with and that’s more than half the battle working with mid-tele range lenses on an M body.

[a.noctilux]

M typ 240 is good choice if it's companion is M246 😜.

I choose M262 for ligtness over M240 (which I own also, no need of video or LV), when I use M246.

[Brilliant Observer]

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[Casey Jefferson]

On 5/26/2023 at 12:12 AM, jto555 said:

The OP also mentioned colour, could I ask have you profiled your cameras? That will help to minimise any colour difference between cameras. I use ColorChecker Camera Calibration. It works with Photoshop and Lightroom.

 

J

It's not color accuracy, it's the variety of color hues captured, which can't be done with color profile alone to bring back what's not there (correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt it can be done).

Go to observe a tree, under natural light, and observe how many shades of greens and yellows (and contrasts) on the small portion of the tree, then take a picture, and see how well a camera reproduce that, with or without processing.

My M-P240 gave me rich color hue variance while my Q2 give less. I can profile and color match them close enough but can't reproduce the richness of colors. Sometimes you see a picture and can tell it's more "digital" because of lacking in variety of color hues and contrasts.

[rwbowman]

So what did the OP do?

[overexposed]

13 minutes ago, rwbowman said:

So what did the OP do?

as usual we will never know.

and here is my 2 cents, got a m-p in mid 2015, beautiful camera, a friend even said "thats a sexy camera mirko"  it truly is.

but i somehow never got warm with it, and the random freezes pissed me off more than once. same happened with the 246, they both had to go.

2021 i got a M10M and i just loved it, later got a M10R BP, never gonna part with them, they are just awesome, especially the mono

 

the 240s sensor was never up to the task imho, eventhough the colors were quite nice, but the noise was quite heavy

[Tessar.]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:31 PM, dugby said:

With regards to M240 freezing, In my 9 years of usage, I only ever had one freeze with an earlier firmware version circa 2014, and after subsequent firmware upgrades, never had another freeze.

My M240 has travelled 75,000km across 5 continents and has been extremely reliable.

For it’s age and current market price, I’d recommend it to my family & friends with neither hesitation nor embarrassment.

Yeah, my M262 (which is an even simpler M240 lol) has never frozen, and neither did my MP or M240 before it.  I'm using a 128GB memory card in it atm.  One thing I did notice is as the card gets to 90% full the camera does slow down and so I found it better to change cards at this point.  

 

My M8 regularly freezes though, but I still like it.  I wouldn't go back to a DSLR or mirrorless camera with EVF after using an RF camera.

[RexGig0]

A often-stated reason to upgrade from the 240/246/262-series cameras, is the better viewfinder. There is a difference, but I learned, first-hand, how minor it is:

In early 2018, the M10 was already extant, having been released in January 2017, but dealers still had waiting lists, so, there were no new M10 cameras, for more than a year. I started “visiting” a pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, at Houston Camera Exchange, an authorized Leica dealer. I test-shot with the Summilux, on pre-owned and demonstrator M9 and M Type 240 cameras, during several visits. When I finally decided to buy the Summilux, in April 2018, I was still trying to decide whether to buy a pre-owned or new M Type 240, when I was told that two new M10 cameras had just become available, with no waiting. With a new M10 in my hands, the viewfinder experience was noticeably better, so, I opted to buy the M10, with the Summilux. I wear eyeglasses, which made the M10’s viewfinder experience all the more helpful.

For several weeks, I used the M10, until one day, when it was wrapped inside a neoprene camera wrap, I dropped my M10, while loading it into our vehicle, while about to leave, for a photographic day trip. My M10 showed no exterior damage, but there were obvious symptoms of internal damage. To test whether my Summilux had been knocked out of proper adjustment, I took it to the camera store, to try it on a demonstrator or pre-owned camera. I was glad to learn that my Summilux worked well. I also noticed a very well-preserved, pre-owned M Type 246 Monochrom. I did some homework, regarding the 246 performance, especially in low light, the, stretched my budget, to buy the M Type 246 Monochrom. 

Well, when I was finally able to resume shooting my M10, along with the M 246, it was apparent that the viewfinder experience was so minor, that I did not really notice that difference, if using both cameras during the same shoot.

Another much-hyped reason to upgrade to the M10/M11, is the slimmer body. Well, again, I use M 240-series and M10 cameras. The difference is quite subtle. If anything, the heftier body better balances such lenses as my much-favored Summilux-M 50mm ASPH.

Yet another much-hyped advantage of the M10/M11 is the physical ISO dial. Well, again, as a user of both body types, I can say that, for me, the physical, dedicated ISO dial is not better. It is simply different.

Of course, I believe that the whole world knows, by now, that the 240/246/262-series’ battery is better. A long day of shooting with an M10 is going to require a second battery.

I cannot address the color palette differences of the M 240 and M10 sensors, because I use an M Type 246 Monochrom, not a color M Type 240.

In early 2022, I decided to acquire “faster” lenses, rather than “upgrade” to an M10 Monochrom. The 240/246/262-series camera body is a good one, that still makes sense.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by RexGig0

[Luke_Miller]

There is an expression that goes "Better is the enemy of good enough".  For my purposes my M240 and M246 are good enough.  If I need better my SL bodies come into play.

[jmahto]

To me it still is. Since beginning (I got mine in 2014) I had fast lenses therefore I have never felt the need for super high ISO. Nighttime street scenes with 28 cron is just fine since you can shoot with crazy slow shutter speed handheld. Yes, there are color differences in different sensors but not necessarily newer is better (I still miss my M9 that I sold too soon for M240). Bigger battery is always a plus and extra weight doesn’t bother me.

Having said that, I do feel that buying anything new does supercharge your enthusiasm and you will go out and take more pictures.

Any camera, lens is fine as long as they are not gathering dust on the shelf. 

[jmahto]

Btw, in my other thread I had wondered in 2017 whether it will be time to upgrade in 2029! 

That was 6 years ago. Still 6 more years to go on M240 from today 😀

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by jmahto

[northernlights]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:07 PM, catacore said:

I like very much the photographic process in itself, that's why I acquired such a camera. That's why I can't photograph using my mobile phone - because I miss the process. 

Unfortunatelly, I was talking about basic stuff, like framing, exposure, white balance - that my M240 is not capable of doing right all the time. I came to not trust my M240 because it fails to deliver what I ask it to deliver. As simple as this: framing, exposure, white balance. Truth is I don't understad why this camera would chose, for instance, a SS of 1/1000 and ISO 2500 in daylight, outdoors, when I set the aperture of my 35mm lens at f/8 - and the result being a blown out picture.

 

I believe you would have checked the metering mode is not on spot or multi-field in extreme circumstances or accidentally set the auto compensation on and scrolled to +3EV

[catacore]

6 hours ago, northernlights said:

I believe you would have checked the metering mode is not on spot or multi-field in extreme circumstances or accidentally set the auto compensation on and scrolled to +3EV

Not being the massochistic type myself, my M240 is for sale now. 

[Coppereye]

The M240 was my first Leica Camera.  Along with my Father in Law we had dreamed of having one for many years.  I left corporate IT at the age of 58 to follow my passion.  Went the Cannon 5D route beautiful lenses (esp the L series )

I continued with the 5D and later versions until 2015 when I made the conscious decision to go to Leica.  The Body and the 50mm Summilux fabulous.  I went up to the M10 as part of a GAS out of control cycle - even used a Hasselblad X1 beautiful. I went back to a M240-P for about a year when illness struck and I’ve had to forgo completely manual cameras because of shaking hands.  I still have my Q why should I change it’s beautiful, a 70 year old M3 SS collapsible 50mm - still manual but works well with a tripod.  The main change is that have switched to the S (typ 007) - tried the SL but didn’t fit my hand too well - the S produces unbelievable images.  
 

But I wouldn't have changed if it wasn’t for the illness.  Camera bodies ( sorry even Leica ) are like computers, you buy one today and it’s almost out of date before you leave the store.  If you go for the M240 then you will have more cash to spend on the lenses that’s where the majority of the image quality comes from.  I hope I speak for the vast majority of Leica photographers; we don’t buy Leica because it’s a Leica, we buy Leica because it helps us achieve better images. 

[maidenfan84]

The OP went to buy the M240, but of course, it sold out quickly for that price. I ended up taking my time and looking at the M240, 10, and 11. Each one seems to have it's pros and cons from the research I did. The M11 is out of the question because of too many issues with it. Not going to spend that type of money for something that needs a battery pulled out and put back in to work, etc. M10 is a nice sweet spot but not feeling the price is worth the cost of admission considering its age. M240 seems to be the best choice for me, overall. I'm keeping my eyes open for one and will lean for either the 50mm Summicron f2 or a Voigtlander lens of similar length. I don't plan to use it for anything other than daily carry everywhere and traveling on the motorcycle with it taking photos of the bike, the mountains and scenery, family snaps, etc. I rarely shoot over 6400 and noise doesn't bother me at all, I actually like a bit of grain in my photos, so that's no big deal either. I'll be sure to keep the thread updated as to what happens! I appreciate everyone's feedback and insight, it's very helpful!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dugby]

I must say, that the Zeiss Planar ZM 50mm with an M240 today is an awesome combination and a sweet-spot for the cost/benefits calculation.

I have the above combo sitting ready to go whenever my family asks to borrow a digital M from me.

 

I myself am an M10-R & 50APO advocate for my daily usage,  but the above combo can still capture beautiful images.