Is a viewfinder an overall recommended purchase?

[Davidjohndavid]

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Quick background on me. I’m new to the “Leica experience” and have only shot on an M4 and M2 over the last month. I’ve become absolutely obsessed with shooting again after a really really long break. I really love film, but learning the subtle nuances through the use of film only has its limitations, especially while wanting to see results quickly so I can adjust as needed without having to wait to develop film(which I’ve been doing at home, both color and black and white).
 

I just bought an M-P 240 last night from eBay. In my research leading up to the purchase, I’ve found mixed reviews online on the necessity for having one. From what I’ve read, it’s very helpful for wider lens options. My current lenses are 21mm Super Angulon 3.4, 35mm Summaron 3.5 and a 50mm Summicron DR. 50mm is my go to MM right now, but after researching more on the Super Angulon, I’m going to start playing with it more often, now that I’ve purchased a digital camera and won’t be running through rolls of film while getting used to its characteristics. 

 

It’s cheap by comparison to most things Leica related, but I already have a vintage 21mm viewfinder. Is it worth the investment? 
 

Also, I’m shopping for multiplier lenses right now and now that I’ve bought this camera wanted to know what a great modern 50mm pairing would be for the M240. I know that they’re great and it’s a matter of personal preference, but is there a 50mm lens out there that is a no brainer pairing? I’ve read that the m240 when paired with the 50mm Summarit 2.4 or 2.5 gives a Noctilux quality in low light, without the price tag. Are there any other special pairings out there? 

[a.noctilux]

19 minutes ago, Davidjohndavid said:

I’ve read that the m240 when paired with the 50mm Summarit 2.4 or 2.5 gives a Noctilux quality in low light

Nice digital M you had choosen, @Davidjohndavid.

1- your 21mm S-A may give some strange edge in picture and because it protudes deep in the M can interfere with the metering cell

2  - 50mm your DR can be mount carefully aftersetting the focus ring to about 1.5m, then the focus will stuck at about 5-10m, not reaching infinity,

using RF at close range will be fine even with the attached goggles

3 - Summarit-M range lenses are hiden gems, I use happily 35/50/75 f/2.5, results are top.

4 - Noctilux is another story, so unique/special lens that (for me) no other lens can compete

(I don't understand "Noctilux quality" you refer to with Summarit-M lens, they are quite different)

[strangeboy]

31 minutes ago, Davidjohndavid said:

Quick background on me. I’m new to the “Leica experience” and have only shot on an M4 and M2 over the last month. I’ve become absolutely obsessed with shooting again after a really really long break. I really love film, but learning the subtle nuances through the use of film only has its limitations, especially while wanting to see results quickly so I can adjust as needed without having to wait to develop film(which I’ve been doing at home, both color and black and white).
 

I just bought an M-P 240 last night from eBay. In my research leading up to the purchase, I’ve found mixed reviews online on the necessity for having one. From what I’ve read, it’s very helpful for wider lens options. My current lenses are 21mm Super Angulon 3.4, 35mm Summaron 3.5 and a 50mm Summicron DR. 50mm is my go to MM right now, but after researching more on the Super Angulon, I’m going to start playing with it more often, now that I’ve purchased a digital camera and won’t be running through rolls of film while getting used to its characteristics. 

 

It’s cheap by comparison to most things Leica related, but I already have a vintage 21mm viewfinder. Is it worth the investment? 
 

Also, I’m shopping for multiplier lenses right now and now that I’ve bought this camera wanted to know what a great modern 50mm pairing would be for the M240. I know that they’re great and it’s a matter of personal preference, but is there a 50mm lens out there that is a no brainer pairing? I’ve read that the m240 when paired with the 50mm Summarit 2.4 or 2.5 gives a Noctilux quality in low light, without the price tag. Are there any other special pairings out there? 

Hello, and welcome to the Leica experience! And say goodbye to the world in which camera talk made any sense at all 🤪.

I can't speak to the viewfinder because I've never used one. My widest lens is a 28 mm. I'm also one of those Leica shooters that uses Zeiss lenses exclusively.

That said, my no-brainer 50mm lens would be the Zeiss Planar 50mm f/2. It's wicked sharp, and perfectly renders exactly what you see. The downside (or upside, depending on what type of shooter you are) is that it might be a bit clinical.

My favorite 50 is the Zeiss Sonnar f/1.5, but this is hardly a no-brainer lens, it requires understanding. But some of my most memorable and emotional photographs were made with this lens.

My Leica is the M10-R.

Cheers!

Edited September 2, 2023 by strangeboy
Adding camera model.

[ECohen]

I have a 240 and the EVF. I rarely use the viewfinder.

With that said, if you are going to use close-up lenses, extension rings, or lenses that don’t connect to the rangefinder, then by all means, the electronic viewfinder is the way to go.

I will admit occasionally I enjoy using the 240 like it was a DSLR’s. The EVF gives you that versatility. But once the new wore off i rarely use the camera that way

If your 21 has the optical viewfinder then you’re good to go. The EVF will slow you up. It was not a seamless pleasant way to work. I use live view for the occasional landscape with a 20.

The electronic viewfinder does make the camera more versatile. But IMO using the 240 as a rangefinder is more fun, and works perfectly fine.  28-90mm

Hope this helps….everyone is going to have their own opinion , this is mine 🙂 

 

[Davidjohndavid]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Nice digital M you had choosen, @Davidjohndavid.

1- your 21mm S-A may give some strange edge in picture and because it protudes deep in the M can interfere with the metering cell

2  - 50mm your DR can be mount carefully aftersetting the focus ring to about 1.5m, then the focus will stuck at about 5-10m, not reaching infinity,

using RF at close range will be fine even with the attached goggles

3 - Summarit-M range lenses are hiden gems, I use happily 35/50/75 f/2.5, results are top.

4 - Noctilux is another story, so unique/special lens that (for me) no other lens can compete

(I don't understand "Noctilux quality" you refer to with Summarit-M lens, they are quite different)

Thank you! I’m excited to start shouting with it. 
 

Thank you for the help with fitting my lenses on the digi body. Ive read a bit on it, but definitely not enough(I’ve already copied and pasted your post in my notes). 
 

I misquoted the article pretty badly… 

“Today, with the M240 and a Summarit, you can achieve better low-light images than you would have with an M8 and a Noctilux…”

link to the article  

http://joerivanderkloet.com/leica-summarit-m-502-4-review/

 

I love the idea of the Noctilux lens(especially the reissue 1.2), but I have way too much money committed to other lenses on my list to even consider one right now. 
 

thank you sir! 

 

 

[Davidjohndavid]

1 hour ago, strangeboy said:

Hello, and welcome to the Leica experience! And say goodbye to the world in which camera talk made any sense at all 🤪.

I can't speak to the viewfinder because I've never used one. My widest lens is a 28 mm. I'm also one of those Leica shooters that uses Zeiss lenses exclusively.

That said, my no-brainer 50mm lens would be the Zeiss Planar 50mm f/2. It's wicked sharp, and perfectly renders exactly what you see. The downside (or upside, depending on what type of shooter you are) is that it might be a bit clinical.

My favorite 50 is the Zeiss Sonnar f/1.5, but this is hardly a no-brainer lens, it requires understanding. But some of my most memorable and emotional photographs were made with this lens.

My Leica is the M10-R.

Cheers!

I was looking at the 50 Zeiss 1.5… Thank you for your description of it. Memorable and emotional is a great combo. I’ll look further into it. Thank you! 

[Davidjohndavid]

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37 minutes ago, ECohen said:

I have a 240 and the EVF. I rarely use the viewfinder.

With that said, if you are going to use close-up lenses, extension rings, or lenses that don’t connect to the rangefinder, then by all means, the electronic viewfinder is the way to go.

I will admit occasionally I enjoy using the 240 like it was a DSLR’s. The EVF gives you that versatility. But once the new wore off i rarely use the camera that way

If your 21 has the optical viewfinder then you’re good to go. The EVF will slow you up. It was not a seamless pleasant way to work. I use live view for the occasional landscape with a 20.

The electronic viewfinder does make the camera more versatile. But IMO using the 240 as a rangefinder is more fun, and works perfectly fine.  28-90mm

Hope this helps….everyone is going to have their own opinion , this is mine 🙂 

 

Def helps… I’m taking a trip to Mammoth and was wondering if it would be something I’d miss if I didn’t buy it in time. I don’t like the idea of being slowed down, especially when learning a new camera. I will be doing table top product shots in the future with it… I’ll probably end up getting it, but there isn’t a rush now. Thank you! 

[ECohen]

I put my Nikon 105 macro on my 240 and the EVF was a necessity. That was a lot of fun!

But other than that if you’re using lenses that connect to the rangefinder and within the range  of the 240 frame lines, 28 to 90. It’s such a great experience. 
 

Live View and the EVF are great features, and make the camera versatile. But the seamless experience without the bells and whistles is the most fun…. Sharp lenses, great sensors  and simplicity. That’s the Leica experience.
 

again IMHO

[dpitt]

The M240 is designed and intended to be used as a rangefinder, just like your M2 and M4 the rangefinder works best for lenses from 28 to 90 mm, and from 0,7m (or 1m on some lenses) to infinity.

The live view helps out were the rangefinder can not do the job i.e. < 28 mm and > 135mm because there are no framelines for that. You can use the back screen for that. Most people do not like to use the back screen to shoot with a camera. Adding an EVF helps because it sort of transforms your Leica M into a mirrorless camera with all the perks and disadvantages. 
I said sort of, because compared to a Leica SL (or other professional mirrorless camera's), any Leica M used with EVF feels primitive. But the EVF adds diopter correction and the possibility to use any non-rangefinder coupled lens to the possibilities of your M240. So IMO the EVF is nice to have for occasional use, but mostly for things you can not do with your M2 or M4 anyway.

Your 21 mm classic viewfinder is superior to the EVF when all you want to do is frame and shoot. It is more clear and has no display lag or blackout issues.

So, for now I see not much advantage in the EVF for you. I would rather spend the money saved towards buying a compatible 50mm lens for your M240. you were unfortunate to own 2 of the few lenses that have issues on digital M's. Buy a nice Rigid Summicron to replace the DR if you want a similar look, or maybe add a 50 mm Elmarit or Summarit if you want to add a completely different look. The Super Angulon on the M240 is not ideal. See if it works for you.

[Davidjohndavid]

Thank you @a.noctilux . I didn’t realize that the 50mm DR Summicrons weren’t fully compatible with the m240. Thank you for that! After looking into it, I decided that I would buy an inexpensive 50mm now for my trip and found a like new Voigtlander 1.1 for a really good price. I’m not a fan of how big it is, but captures some great images and after comparing the picture quality to the newer and much smaller 1.2, I went for the much cheaper option. The 1.1 was $450 and 1/2 the price of the 1.2’s I found that I could get by 9/8. Since this isn’t a forever lens, I think the price difference was worth the gives. It seems like a great lens overall and I’m really looking forward to using it with my M2 and M4’s. 

[Davidjohndavid]

20 minutes ago, dpitt said:

The M240 is designed and intended to be used as a rangefinder, just like your M2 and M4 the rangefinder works best for lenses from 28 to 90 mm, and from 0,7m (or 1m on some lenses) to infinity.

The live view helps out were the rangefinder can not do the job i.e. < 28 mm and > 135mm because there are no framelines for that. You can use the back screen for that. Most people do not like to use the back screen to shoot with a camera. Adding an EVF helps because it sort of transforms your Leica M into a mirrorless camera with all the perks and disadvantages. 
I said sort of, because compared to a Leica SL (or other professional mirrorless camera's), any Leica M used with EVF feels primitive. But the EVF adds diopter correction and the possibility to use any non-rangefinder coupled lens to the possibilities of your M240. So IMO the EVF is nice to have for occasional use, but mostly for things you can not do with your M2 or M4 anyway.

Your 21 mm classic viewfinder is superior to the EVF when all you want to do is frame and shoot. It is more clear and has no display lag or blackout issues.

So, for now I see not much advantage in the EVF for you. I would rather spend the money saved towards buying a compatible 50mm lens for your M240. you were unfortunate to own 2 of the few lenses that have issues on digital M's. Buy a nice Rigid Summicron to replace the DR if you want a similar look, or maybe add a 50 mm Elmarit or Summarit if you want to add a completely different look. The Super Angulon on the M240 is not ideal. See if it works for you.

Thank you. I’m looking for a chrome 50mm ‘67 Summilux or Rigid to pair with an early M4 I own. Those are my top goal lenses at the moment. They’re both great and I would be lucky to own either. Depending on how long it takes to find one, I’ll probxx add not end up buying another 50mm. The Summarit 2.4 or 2.5 is at the top of that list. “Affordable”, readily available and unique in look. I like them a lot. 

[a.noctilux]

4 hours ago, Davidjohndavid said:

After looking into it, I decided that I would buy an inexpensive 50mm now for my trip and found a like new Voigtlander 1.1 for a really good price.

Nokton 1.1/50 was ( I used it many years ) very good for it's price point.

Well used, it will cover about 80-90% of Noctilux 1.0/50 rendering that I know well.

Good news, the Nokton is lighter (430g vs 600g) and has better designed larger focus ring than Noctilux.

[Davidjohndavid]

7 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Nokton 1.1/50 was ( I used it many years ) very good for it's price point.

Well used, it will cover about 80-90% of Noctilux 1.0/50 rendering that I know well.

Good news, the Nokton is lighter (430g vs 600g) and has better designed larger focus ring than Noctilux.

That’s great news. I wouldn’t have guessed that anything about the Nokton 1.1 could be better than the Noctilux. My bits of research proved to me that it was capable of taking great pictures and found that it was often compared to a much cheaper alternative to the Noctilux, without the beautiful bokeh the Noctilux has… Which no other lens has. I’m pretty happy with the purchase on paper. In your years of using the Nokton 1.1, are there any idiosyncrasies that you’d point out when using this lens in Nature? We’ll be in the Sierra mountains with sunny weather in the forecast. Usual forest, cabin(s) and lake settings. I start work on a commercial that shoots Tuesday-Saturday this week and won’t have any time to do any in hand testing before I head out. 

[mfunnell]

While I have the EVF (mine's the Olympus VF-2, because I saw no need to pay Leica prices for this) I have to say I pretty much never use it. In fact, on reading this thread I had to hunt around to find it, then put it on my camera to make sure it still works (it does).

While I suppose the VF-2 is a fun toy, I guess I'm in this for the rangefinder experience - and, also, I guess I'm an "optical finder bigot". I've never yet taken to any EVF - even much more modern and better ones than the VF-2. (For long lenses, I'm still with SLRs - no matter how many try to push me towards "mirrorless".)

I did try using my VF-2 with my M240 and Super Angulon - and found I much preferred the external 21mm bright-line finder to the EVF. I also found that I preferred to not use my Super Angulon on my M240 - taking photos (even with the EVF) was unpleasant, and there's only so much Cornerfix can do for you! The Super Angulon now stays on my (sadly, mostly unused lately) film cameras. For wide-angle on my M240  I far prefer my ZM Distagon 18mm/f4 (with the Zeiss external finder) - Cornerfix has to do far less work to sort out photos from the Distagon.

   ...Mike 

[AnakChan]

I hope it's ok to piggyback on this thread but as I get older I find it harder and harder to focus with my Leica M. Is the VF-2 or EVF-2 be a viable tool to help in focusing for aging eyesight?

[a.noctilux]

15 minutes ago, AnakChan said:

I hope it's ok to piggyback on this thread but as I get older I find it harder and harder to focus with my Leica M.

Is the VF-2 or EVF-2 be a viable tool to help in focusing for aging eyesight?

Try in shop if you can.

Good thing that with VF-2/EVF-2 we can adjust diopters for aging or not perfect eyes.

Zoom-in (only in center of frame with this EVF) can also help for precise focus.

Resolution can be a problem comparing to more Mpix newer models.

...

Anyway, just try it then you will know.

[Luke_Miller]

I think it depends on what you like to shoot. I use the EVF for static shots when I use my 24 & 21mm lenses.  What I enjoy most is shooting events and there I find the EVF too slow.  I solved the aging eyes problem with cataract surgery and the proper diopter on the eyepiece. 

[AnakChan]

Thx for the replies. I’m not at the cataract stage yet but rather 23 yrs ago I had an “overcorrected” LASIK.But in recent yrs they’re worsening slowly.

I’ve been toying around with the idea of a 1.25x magnifier vs the (E)VF-2 which one can pick up from eBay rather cheaply. However if EVF-2 don’t help in making focusing more efficient, then I may seek the 1.25x magnification route.

Sadly I don’t live in Tokyo anymore & can’t “try before buying”.

[Ernstk]

The lens that I use 80% of the time on my M-P 240 is my Elmarit-M 2.8/21.

I have never used an external viewfinder or an EVF. With time, you learn to 'see' the 21mm view in the viewfinder and then the camera becomes very rapid to use.

Ernst

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[AnakChan]

5 hours ago, Ernstk said:

The lens that I use 80% of the time on my M-P 240 is my Elmarit-M 2.8/21.

I have never used an external viewfinder or an EVF. With time, you learn to 'see' the 21mm view in the viewfinder and then the camera becomes very rapid to use.

Ernst

Actually I've had my M Typ240 since 2014 (and prior M6/M7/M9 since 2001). I use both 35lux & 50lux pretty equally. So in my case it's not a case of getting used to it, but more on seeking options to aid focus to address slowly aging eyesight.