Internal differences between M2 and MP

[madNbad]

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I really loved my M2 but had to sell it along with all of my Leica gear. A year later I bought the M4 and don’t miss the M2.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, pippy said:

Why?

I prefer incident metering and use a handheld meter so the built-in meter isn't useful to me.  And the meter is the one thing that's likely to stop working and be unrepairable at some point.  Others may/will disagree, but I'd rather have a meter-less camera than one with a broken meter. 

The BP finish is really the only thing that draws me to the MP.   It is gorgeous.

Edited August 26, 2023 by logan2z

[logan2z]

56 minutes ago, pippy said:

 There's nothing (IMO) about the M2 which is superior

One might say that the uncluttered viewfinder makes the M2 superior.  It sure is nice when using a 35mm lens on the M2, that's generally the lens that I have permanently glued to mine.

[a.noctilux]

No need to argue 😇.

The final choice is by the OP.

Nothing logic to find.

...

That said to answer the OP question ( where is the OP ?).

I would find a good M4 (in place of M2), or M-A in place of MP.

Of course that IS my choice.

Nothing wrong with other choices.

Well maintained, Leica M IS Leica M !

[Leicalott]

Hi everyone!

Thanks so much to everyone for taking the time to respond, I’m very grateful! And apologies for the radio silence, had to work yesterday until late. (Based in Australia)

All very interesting points, always good to consider different points of view and see what is important to different people. 
 

From reading everything and noticing what my brain wanted to believe and what it wanted to ignore (I acknowledge that my concerns/desires are irrational) I think I was wanting to be convinced that a new Leica would be a better buy and that steel gears are not ‘less than’ brass but simply different. I think I’m going to go with the MP and rest in the security of an official Leica warranty.
 

Thanks again to everyone that chimed in, now to go and take some very average photos! 😄

 

 

[TomB_tx]

Good choice - but both options were good...

[logan2z]

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36 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

Good choice - but both options were good...

I'm sure there's an M2 in his future as well anyway 😉

[madNbad]

Enjoy your new MP, post a few photos occasionally. If you have questions, this is a great forum to come to for answers.

[Leica Filmmatic]

MP is def the way to go

[Topsy]

Ironically I have just sold my MP because although I loved it and still think it is the best film M I hardly ever shoot 35mm preferring my M9s for that size format. I have kept my M2 though (and M4-P) for the odd occasion that shooting 35mm takes my fancy.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Topsy

[ktmrider2]

I have owned more M2's than any other Leica model.  Leica got something right when they designed the M2.  Saying that I presently use a mint M4 anniversary model.  I prefer the modern film loading and rewind but the viewfinder of the M2 for a 35mm lens is to die for.  I find myself very very attracted to a black paint MP.  I can live without a meter and if Leica made an MA with the black paint finish I would probably choose one of them.  The ultimate is probably a black paint M4 (without the brassing) and they can be found but with an asking price of $15,000 (couple over at Classic Connection) I would get an MP instead or maybe two or three!

[Bronco McBeast]

55 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

I have owned more M2's than any other Leica model.  Leica got something right when they designed the M2.  Saying that I presently use a mint M4 anniversary model.  I prefer the modern film loading and rewind but the viewfinder of the M2 for a 35mm lens is to die for.  I find myself very very attracted to a black paint MP.  I can live without a meter and if Leica made an MA with the black paint finish I would probably choose one of them.  The ultimate is probably a black paint M4 (without the brassing) and they can be found but with an asking price of $15,000 (couple over at Classic Connection) I would get an MP instead or maybe two or three!

The Ultimate, in Layman commonman terms, would be the M3 BP. Then, M2 BP. Then, M4 BP. The M2 doubles the M3 in production numbers, and the M4 doubles the M2. This is why the M2 BP is double expensive the4 BP, and this is why the M3 BP is twice as expensive than the M2 BP.

And then there is the MP-3 BP, all the special edition M6’, the common MP and its ala carte variants, and at last the new M6 Black Paint 2020.

 

The M4 BP would be the most  accessible BP camera of the original Leicas, and the cheapest. Highly desirable, but merely the entry-Level.

The “Ultimate” would be the M3 BP, the M2 BP being the “Penultimate”

Yes, there is the original MP, and other highly collectibles (ala Olive M3) but those are in a higher, more exclusive League.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Bronco McBeast

[ktmrider2]

To me the M4 has all the features I look for in a film Leica and one extra-the 135 frame lines in the viewfinder.  It can be argued that it is the best made of all the Leica's using original craftsmanship.  I prefer the .72 viewfinder over the M3's and the modern film loading over the M2's.  If I had a BP M2 or M3 in my possession, I would sell it and get a BP M4.

With so many subtle differences between all the film M's but the basic operation being identical between the M3 to the latest MP or MA (except the M7 or M5) it is great that one can choose the model which checks the most boxes.

[TomB_tx]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

To me the M4 has all the features I look for in a film Leica and one extra-the 135 frame lines in the viewfinder.  It can be argued that it is the best made of all the Leica's using original craftsmanship.  I prefer the .72 viewfinder over the M3's and the modern film loading over the M2's.  If I had a BP M2 or M3 in my possession, I would sell it and get a BP M4.

With so many subtle differences between all the film M's but the basic operation being identical between the M3 to the latest MP or MA (except the M7 or M5) it is great that one can choose the model which checks the most boxes.

Yup - in 1968 I bought a new M4 instead of the still-available-new M3 or M2. I've never regretted it. I've since added both M3 & M2 to my stable of cameras, but I prefer the M4 over both. However, I'm from the era where chrome cameras were preferred over black, and I still think they look classier - hence my chrome M10. Most often now I'll pick my 1985 M6 to use, even though it's black, as I really like the meter.

[jakontil]

Great choice! After the MP your mind will be at peace that makes you wanting another toy like M2 for instance… it’s just itching 

[a.noctilux]

Beginning of big adventure.

Perspective of bigger fun 🤑.

[Anbaric]

On 8/26/2023 at 1:18 PM, Mute-on said:

I have a completely unproven theory that the early MPs were made slightly better, at least at a time when Leica was predominantly a film camera company, and most of the film camera manufacturing experience was still retained. I would still buy an early MP and have it overhauled. I am aware that most would probably buy new and assume it was the peak of what Leica is capable of producing. I just don’t subscribe to that assumption in relation to film cameras …. 

On 8/26/2023 at 1:57 PM, Bronco McBeast said:

PURE internet myth that gets transformed as “knowledge”.

The thing is, back when the MP was issued, it was seen as merely a M6 in disguise. It was HIGHLY criticized, and seen as a very poor M camera compared to the original M3-M2-M4.

The very early MP were iffy. The actually WERE M6 in disguise.

The only significant changes they seem to have made to the MP over time were to change the style of the ISO dial and to improve the dust sealing of the finder. And the MP was different internally to the M6 from the start, including a new meter that was never backwards-compatible with earlier cameras, and an improved finder with the condenser lens restored.

Of course there were a few people on the Internet who compared the MP unfavourably to whatever Leica they preferred, but there always are (personally I think it was downhill after the IIIb). Some welcomed the return of the classic winder and rewind knob, others thought this was style over substance and the M4 had got it right. Probably there were fans of the TTL's large reversed shutter speed dial and flash metering who were sorry to see these go. But my recollection is that the MP was viewed favourably by most, while it was acknowledged Leica was now targeting the heritage market (not a terrible strategy in a world that was moving rapidly to digital, with the M8 still three years away). Of course, you can never please the brass gear fetishists, except perhaps with an M3 reboot complete with double stroke winder and glass pressure plate. Leica could probably sell these for £25,000, and a few might even be gently lifted out of their display cases to take photos.

[Anbaric]

21 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I prefer the modern film loading and rewind but the viewfinder of the M2 for a 35mm lens is to die for.

I'm intrigued by this, maybe the best of both worlds?:

https://www.cameraworks-uk.com/product-page/leica-rapid-load-kit-rlk

[Bronco McBeast]

19 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

The only significant changes they seem to have made to the MP over time were to change the style of the ISO dial and to improve the dust sealing of the finder. And the MP was different internally to the M6 from the start, including a new meter that was never backwards-compatible with earlier cameras, and an improved finder with the condenser lens restored.

 

The MP’ 288-289xxxx range was mostly M6 innards. Even the lightmeter in those is starting to fail, with one LED or both starting to go off.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

22 minutes ago, Bronco McBeast said:

The MP’ 288-289xxxx range was mostly M6 innards. Even the lightmeter in those is starting to fail, with one LED or both starting to go off.

Some would say that MP without meter (or take out the battery) is M-A for peanut.

As old user of MP and now M-A I tend to desagree.

MP is great though when I used them with or without meter (battery removed).