The case for a Leica Tri-Elmar 28-35-50 (MATE) successor

[a.noctilux]

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4 hours ago, setuporg said:

I've just added a 55 MATE

What is that 55 MATE ?

[setuporg]

7 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

What is that 55 MATE ?

The one with the 55mm filter and a vestigial hood:)

[a.noctilux]

3 minutes ago, setuporg said:

The one with the 55mm filter and a vestigial hood:)

Thanks.

same as mine, not coded but such a good lens.

[BernardC]

On 11/29/2023 at 12:25 AM, setuporg said:

Would love to have it 6 bit coded but not with the enormous wait times.

Have the wait times gone back up? The last lens I sent for coding in NJ took two weeks between approval and return shipping. That was two years ago.

[setuporg]

6 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Have the wait times gone back up? The last lens I sent for coding in NJ took two weeks between approval and return shipping. That was two years ago.

Ah!  I thought they have to send them on to Wetzlar, which has horrific wait times for more than half a year according to other threads and @Al Brown.

If 6-bit coding is done in NJ that’s great news!  However I wonder whether sending an old lens would warrant a CLA, and that would probably entail going to Wetzlar anyways?…

[BernardC]

36 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I wonder whether sending an old lens would warrant a CLA, and that would probably entail going to Wetzlar anyways?

The estimate includes a line item for "repair focusing", which means that they adjusted the focus for digital bodies. That's the A part of CLA. The lens came back clean and lubricated, but it was already clean and smooth, so I don't know if that's included.

The best way to find out is to ask Leica NJ.

 

[lexffm]

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Shot with the "4th" lens of the TRI-ELMAR-M 1:4 28-35-50 ASPH.

Between the position 50mm and 28mm you can go into “macro mode” up to approx. 40cm. My lens is a silver one that was only available in the 1st series. 

There are sources that say that only the 2nd series has this 4th lens. But there are also statements that the silver lenses are already based on the new inner workings of the 2nd series. Finally, the statement that the inner workings of the 1st and 2nd series are the same (except for the roller for the 28mm light frame)

Image taken with an M 11-P and TRI-ELMAR-M 1:4 28-35-50 ASPH. @between 50 and 28 and a distance of approx. 40 cm. ISO 400, f5.6, 1/250

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[lct]

The regular version 1 of the MATE has hidden close-up capabilities too.

 

[wizard]

Am 14.8.2023 um 11:10 schrieb TomSchmitt:

While the MATE’s IQ was more than acceptable in it’s production time between 1998 and 2007 ... , the current Leica lenses as well as Voigtlander Ultrons, Skopars and particulary APO’s are now miles ahead in virtually all aspects of IQ. The gap has widened and become too big.

Coincidentally, I have just returned from a trip to Bohemia/Czech Republic, where I used my new M11P exclusively with my trusty MATE version II. Is it really true that the MATE's IQ is so much worse than more modern lenses from both Leica and Voigtlander? For discussion purposes, I attach two overview shots and one cutout of each shot based on a 500 % (!) zoomed-in view. Both overview shots are reduced size out of camera jpegs, whereas the cutouts were taken from the respective fullsize jpeg. My MATE was set to 35mm at f6.3, and both shots were handheld at ISO 200.

The first overview shot shows the market colonnade in Karlsbad. On the very left lower edge of that shot one can see a sign "Mini Market" on a house. Below the sign is an entrance door with the word "CHANGE" on it, and directly above that word is an icon on the door glas. That icon is just a small white speck when the entire image is viewed on an iPad. The zoomed-in cutout clearly shows the icon and its purpose.

The second overview shot shows a market place in Loket, a small town where emperor Karl IV was born. On the very far left edge one may see an elongated brownish sign showing the direction to the next parking meter. To the right of the words "Parkovaci Automat" on the sign is an icon depicting a parking meter. The 500% zoomed-in cutout of the image clearly shows that icon.

Due to the extreme zooming-in, CA is visible on both cutouts, which I believe could easily be removed in post, thus further enhancing IQ. It is worth noting that both cutouts originate from the extreme edge of the image circle of the lens. Personally, I am quite impressed and satisfied by the performance of a lens that was designed more than 25 years ago without any idea of 60MP digital sensors.

Cheers,

Andy

 

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[spydrxx]

IMHO anybody who worries about that is both unrealistic in their expectations and suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder.

[TomSchmitt]

19 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

IMHO anybody who worries about that is both unrealistic in their expectations and suffering from obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Well, I humbly reject the latter. 

[TomSchmitt]

59 minutes ago, wizard said:

Coincidentally, I have just returned from a trip to Bohemia/Czech Republic, where I used my new M11P exclusively with my trusty MATE version II. Is it really true that the MATE's IQ is so much worse than more modern lenses from both Leica and Voigtlander? For discussion purposes, I attach two overview shots and one cutout of each shot based on a 500 % (!) zoomed-in view. Both overview shots are reduced size out of camera jpegs, whereas the cutouts were taken from the respective fullsize jpeg. My MATE was set to 35mm at f6.3, and both shots were handheld at ISO 200.

The first overview shot shows the market colonnade in Karlsbad. On the very left lower edge of that shot one can see a sign "Mini Market" on a house. Below the sign is an entrance door with the word "CHANGE" on it, and directly above that word is an icon on the door glas. That icon is just a small white speck when the entire image is viewed on an iPad. The zoomed-in cutout clearly shows the icon and its purpose.

The second overview shot shows a market place in Loket, a small town where emperor Karl IV was born. On the very far left edge one may see an elongated brownish sign showing the direction to the next parking meter. To the right of the words "Parkovaci Automat" on the sign is an icon depicting a parking meter. The 500% zoomed-in cutout of the image clearly shows that icon.

Due to the extreme zooming-in, CA is visible on both cutouts, which I believe could easily be removed in post, thus further enhancing IQ. It is worth noting that both cutouts originate from the extreme edge of the image circle of the lens. Personally, I am quite impressed and satisfied by the performance of a lens that was designed more than 25 years ago without any idea of 60MP digital sensors.

Cheers,

Andy

 

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Your copy looks definitely better than mine, I have a Version 1. Pretty impressive !!!!!

[RexGig0]

I tended to use my Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED at ~30mm and at ~40mm, during one particularly memorable road trip, in 2015, across the USA’S Old South, from SE Texas to the DC/Chesapeake region, into southern Pennsylvania, then returning along a route closer to the northern Gulf of Mexico shore, so, a Middle Angle Bi Elmar, as mentioned by @MarkP and @Jeff S on the first page, makes conceptual sense, to me. I shoot with eyeglasses, so cannot readily see 35mm frame lines, which makes the 35mm + 50mm Bi-Elmar the better choice for my personal situation, though I could make use of 28mm + 50mm, well enough. (At 35mm, I simply use the entire viewfinder to frame the shot, unless it is critical to get exact framing.)

I like the idea of a 35mm + 50mm + 75mm Tri-Elmar, but as I understand the engineering problem, at a layman’s level, it is difficult to design a compact zoom that crosses the 50mm threshold. I do not mind that a Summilix-M 50mm ASPH or APO SUMMICRON-M 75mm ASPH blocks a significant part of the viewfinder’s field of view, but a mid-range zoom or Bi-/Tri-Elmar, that has wide-normal to short telephoto range, might have to be larger, still.

I am willing to tote two M cameras, which makes an M-mount zoom or Bi-/Tri-Elmar less necessary. (My preference is one M camera in a pouch or holster, and one, one a long strap, either in-hand, or allowed to hang at my left side.) A pro-level DSLR is notably heavier and bulkier than an M camera; I would not want to lug two DSLRs, again. (I was not a “professional photographer,” but was tasked with the added duty of forensic/evidentiary/crime scene photography, during the final 7+ years of my career in public service. I used a 100mm macro lens, and a mid-range zoom. It was my choice to use two DSLRs.) If I am willing to carry two cameras, a Tri-Elmar is, relatively, less important.

I am simply sharing my thoughts. My way is not “the way.” I am not trying to persuade or convert anyone. The OP directly asked what we thought.

Unless I re-enter the work force, at some level, as an independent artist/contractor or an employee, however, or, I can manage to “break the bank at Monte Carlo,” this is all just a thought exercise. I can budget for only one significant lens purchase at a time, about once a year, with a price ceiling of about $4K US, if I want to avoid paying interest to a credit card company or bank, or, worse, raid my tax-deferred retirement savings.

Edited May 9, 2024 by RexGig0

[chris7273]

Why not a real zoom 28-50 f/4 with a « click » for each important focal length (28/35/50). 
good for classic m’s and ready for the future evf-m ?

 

[lct]

9 minutes ago, chris7273 said:

Why not a real zoom 28-50 f/4 with a « click » for each important focal length (28/35/50). 
good for classic m’s and ready for the future evf-m ?

Unsure how such a lens could bring up different framelines but i'm no techie sorry.

[wizard]

Am 8.5.2024 um 16:10 schrieb TomSchmitt:

Your copy looks definitely better than mine, I have a Version 1.

Version 1 and 2 are identical with regard to their optical construction, so your version 1 should be just as good as my v2. As already indicated earlier in this thread, my copy rendered a little soft when new out of the box, so I sent it in under warranty for whatever treatment was needed. When it came back it rendered notably sharper (and still does). Leica apparently only readjusted the plane of focus slightly, but the effect was clearly visible. If you think about getting your lens coded, this sort of adjustment will have to be done anyway, as the lens flange will be exchanged for a new one including the 6-bit coding.

[wizard]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb RexGig0:

I shoot with eyeglasses, so cannot readily see 35mm frame lines,

Have you thought about using a Visoflex? Following some initial reservation, I now like mine a lot. In use, I adjust focus using the rangefinder (it just works so well and super quick) and then switch to the Visoflex for composing the shot. By way of the Visoflex, you are able to preview in advance what the result will be like, plus there is additional information in the Visoflex such as histogram, spirit level and highlight clipping, as desired. I now think of the Visoflex as a sort of modern universal accessory shoe finder.

[Jeff S]

I only use the RF, so some thin, flexible eyeglass frames, with thin and scratch resistant lenses, provide better viewing of wider frame lines for me.

Jeff

[RexGig0]

11 hours ago, wizard said:

Have you thought about using a Visoflex? Following some initial reservation, I now like mine a lot. In use, I adjust focus using the rangefinder (it just works so well and super quick) and then switch to the Visoflex for composing the shot. By way of the Visoflex, you are able to preview in advance what the result will be like, plus there is additional information in the Visoflex such as histogram, spirit level and highlight clipping, as desired. I now think of the Visoflex as a sort of modern universal accessory shoe finder.

I do have a Visoflex 020, for the M10, and EVF for the 240/246, for use as necessary.

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Hallo,

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[a.noctilux]

If not said before,

for me replacement(s) of MATE would be nice but I'm NOT in the queue for one of those.

I have them already as separate lenses and I tend to use them (or only one of...) for now  and in the past.