M11 Price Question

[fotografr]

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I was googling a couple questions about the M11M today and naturally eBay popped up. There are two brand new black M11 bodies listed by sellers with 100% ratings. One is asking $5500 and the other is asking $5215. Both show free shipping. B&H is selling these for $8995. Does anybody have thoughts on how these people are selling at those prices? What am I missing here? 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404419641847?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20221018081743%26meid%3D64b6c95fc92745418a01f08f6cffb861%26pid%3D101429%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D225702531248%26itm%3D404419641847%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2332490%26algv%3DSimPLMWebV1%26brand%3DLeica&_trksid=p2332490.c101429.m2460&amdata=cksum%3A40441964184764b6c95fc92745418a01f08f6cffb861|enc%3AAQAIAAAA8I6qvrING7O0hZFcnxkK5HO7gD65Tn%2B3oJEzUAAaFie1pvHtgOB9%2Fig2S529kIVKvBdcoMGabVtWyJUFk%2BJAgSujqexetGeHtyCFaFFHcyj7Vp9Jbu2UJo2HfhpGz1%2FHTneotnsz3129O28%2FSy%2FRYMzyk7nJSs38YVEXre8MPMUnGpoPbC3WR4OJm0vkuP4x6J%2FtxQEwzNPYbZjzZeAwbrcouEoaJlubfTTQ7exAzGpbFc5A36rZOdA0v0l%2F56YyGGVkM%2FfFhwZjgIzYj3mW6fw7dJgOFJdx28TyHdFDZ%2BEj5dz4mabe1woILFBHRKrqPw%3D%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2332490&epid=7052411046

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by fotografr

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[Boojay]

Pretty sure they aren't for real... feedback score of (1) - ok 100% - but one purchase - no sales.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Boojay

[fotografr]

25 minutes ago, Boojay said:

Pretty sure they aren't for real... feedback score of (1) - ok 100% - but one purchase - no sales.

 

 

Thanks, Jayne. I didn't dig deep enough to see that but it's an excellent point and certainly a clue. I sent one of them a query asking how it's possible to sell a new M11 at this price. I'll report back here if I get an answer. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by fotografr

[sometimesmaybe]

also dont forget ebay charges the seller a 13% or 14% fee... so i reckon this has a 97% chance of being a scam. i see them from time to time on ebay (not too often). sometimes the scammers dont bother tremoving the watermark from known 2nd hand leica dealers 🙄 

[fotografr]

I did get a reply to my question directed to the seller as to how it was possible to sell the M11 at the price shown. I still think it has to be a scam, but here is the reply:

New message from: noequ-40 (1)   Thank you for your inquiry. We understand your concern about purchasing from a seller without any feedback. We would like to assure you that we are committed to providing genuine and high-quality products to our customers. To address your concern, we are more than happy to provide you with additional proof that the item is real. We can accommodate your request to take specific photos of the item. Whether it's a close-up shot of the logo, a specific angle, or any other detail, please let us know your requirements, and we will be glad to fulfill them. We believe that with the additional photos, you will have a better understanding of the authenticity and quality of the item. We value your trust as a customer, and we aim to provide the best shopping experience possible. Should you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to us. Thank you for considering our products.

[dkmoore]

8 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I did get a reply to my question directed to the seller as to how it was possible to sell the M11 at the price shown. I still think it has to be a scam, but here is the reply:

New message from: noequ-40 (1)   Thank you for your inquiry. We understand your concern about purchasing from a seller without any feedback. We would like to assure you that we are committed to providing genuine and high-quality products to our customers. To address your concern, we are more than happy to provide you with additional proof that the item is real. We can accommodate your request to take specific photos of the item. Whether it's a close-up shot of the logo, a specific angle, or any other detail, please let us know your requirements, and we will be glad to fulfill them. We believe that with the additional photos, you will have a better understanding of the authenticity and quality of the item. We value your trust as a customer, and we aim to provide the best shopping experience possible. Should you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to us. Thank you for considering our products.

You never know but I personally wouldn’t take the risk. Give it a whirl and ask them to send you a few specific pictures. 
 

eBay is very protective of sellers. 
 

another tip, if you use AMEX, buy through EBay with Amex and you will have zero issue if it’s a scam. Amex is the best for this. 
 

bought an expensive watch one time off eBay and it ended up being a scam. Amex resolved the issue in 2 hours. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by dkmoore

[jakontil]

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1 hour ago, fotografr said:

I did get a reply to my question directed to the seller as to how it was possible to sell the M11 at the price shown. I still think it has to be a scam, but here is the reply:

New message from: noequ-40 (1)   Thank you for your inquiry. We understand your concern about purchasing from a seller without any feedback. We would like to assure you that we are committed to providing genuine and high-quality products to our customers. To address your concern, we are more than happy to provide you with additional proof that the item is real. We can accommodate your request to take specific photos of the item. Whether it's a close-up shot of the logo, a specific angle, or any other detail, please let us know your requirements, and we will be glad to fulfill them. We believe that with the additional photos, you will have a better understanding of the authenticity and quality of the item. We value your trust as a customer, and we aim to provide the best shopping experience possible. Should you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to us. Thank you for considering our products.

So scary, once you engaged they might try to convince you in any way they could, it is too cheap to be true imho

they would of course speak in a professional manner 

[fotografr]

17 minutes ago, jakontil said:

So scary, once you engaged they might try to convince you in any way they could, it is too cheap to be true imho

they would of course speak in a professional manner 

I think it's a case of, "if it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't." I'm probably going to steer clear of this one. Just to satisfy myself, however, I've asked the seller to upload two additional images.

--One photo of the camera next to a card showing the current date.

--One photo clearly showing the serial number on the top plate.

I doubt I'll hear back, but we'll see.

Edited August 4, 2023 by fotografr

[Boojay]

So many of this type of listing popping up on eBay - lot's of sellers with zero or little feedback.   

I did fall for a similar scam years ago, not with a Leica but a Canon 5DIII IIRC. That scammer had managed to run up a slightly higher feedback but when looking deeper it was for items of minimal value.   Anyway, turned out myself and many others fell for it, took a while but eBay/paypal (when they were one) paid me back in full.  I think buyer protection on eBay is good.    Many times with these listings, if you can be bothered, and have the time, a search through completed items can often turn up the same photo's being used for the sale with various sellers.

Think your probably correct with "if it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't."

 

[zanydave]

Just ask them if you can collect the camera in person?.. 

[fotografr]

4 hours ago, zanydave said:

Just ask them if you can collect the camera in person?.. 

Great suggestion. He's in Indiana and I'm in Wisconsin, so it's just a few hours drive.

 

 

[lct]

If you know the serial number of the camera i would ask Leica if it is registered as lost, stolen or otherwise and i would not take delivery w/o checking the purchase invoice of the seller. Grey market i suspect given the price.

[fotografr]

11 minutes ago, lct said:

If you know the serial number of the camera i would ask Leica if it is registered as lost, stolen or otherwise and i would not take delivery w/o checking the purchase invoice of the seller. Grey market i suspect given the price.

I asked him to photograph the top plate in such a way as to show me the serial number. he replied that he can't do this because he has to protect the previous buyer. I just replied back to him that the camera is listed as "brand new," so how could there be a previous buyer?

I would definitely check with Leica if the guy provides me with the serial number.

Edited August 4, 2023 by fotografr

[Nitnaros]

It’s a scam 

either not real or cameras with a fault

ebay will do *nothing* for you as buyer if it turns out to be a scam; I had this experience before

I clearly had a fraudulent seller (he had intercepted the real seller to get my payment), informed ebay, they acknowledge it’s fraud and said: you still have to dispute and try to resolve yourself with that (scam) seller…

with a scammer?

they don’t care in order to maximize transaction volume on their platform. All that matters to them

if I’m not 100% convinced it’s a legitimate seller, I don’t buy

 

[lct]

16 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I would definitely check with Leica if the guy provides me with the serial number.

He must provide you with the serial number and the purchase invoice or I'd put an immediate end to your discussions.

Edited August 4, 2023 by lct

[zanydave]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

Great suggestion. He's in Indiana and I'm in Wisconsin, so it's just a few hours drive.

 

 

The point is. They don’t know that. It’s called “Calling their bluff” 🤦🏼‍♂️

[fenykepesz]

years ago when i was exposed to a similar situation - albeit with Amazon, not eBay - folks actually here on this very forum encouraged me to go through it and just  order that M10-D for some 40% less than the regular US store price.  now, all went fine, and i am today more than happy with the camera - but i feel i was just lucky and crazy enough to pull it through. 

however, your case with eBay stinks much more in my eyes (nose), i wouldn't dare to go with that 'deal'...

[Guest]

I'm looking to sell my M11, and I've been quoted about $5K from Keh and MPB. So if a reseller is buying used Leica M11's for that amount, they would need to sell it at decent markup to profit. There is no way that those are legit deals. When the price seems too good to be true, it often is. I'm going to sell mine privately because even used, $5K is too little too give this up.

Edited August 4, 2023 by JaySD

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[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, JaySD said:

I'm looking to sell my M11, and I've been quoted about $5K from Keh and MPB. So if a reseller is buying used Leica M11's for that amount, they would need to sell it at decent markup to profit. There is no way that those are legit deals. When the price seems too good to be true, it often is. I'm going to sell mine privately because even used, $5K is too little too give this up.

Trades at Leica Miami net 80% to seller (70% for outright sale), so a mint M11, still with warranty, should be worth at least $6500 in trade. Consignments at Popflash net 75%.  Both would yield much more than $5k, without the marketing and hassle of private sale.  

Jeff

Edited August 4, 2023 by Jeff S

[fotografr]

2 hours ago, JaySD said:

I'm looking to sell my M11, and I've been quoted about $5K from Keh and MPB. So if a reseller is buying used Leica M11's for that amount, they would need to sell it at decent markup to profit. There is no way that those are legit deals. When the price seems too good to be true, it often is. I'm going to sell mine privately because even used, $5K is too little too give this up.

I completely agree. Something about this doesn't pass the smell test. May I ask why you're selling your M11? I'm still on the fence about whether to stay with my M10-R or move to the M11. One big advantage to staying with my M10-R is that I also have the M10M and they are a great match. Same menus, same batteries and charger, etc..