captain Posted November 11, 2007 Share #1 Posted November 11, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) My little Voigtlander 21mm died a while back committing suicide on a concrete path and have been considering a replacement. Certainly the new M Mount version looks great and the 4 other Leica lenses I use with it all use 39mm filters. The new compact biogon is supposed to be one of the best 21's in M mount so that's another option. But I have read the odd rumour or two that Leica may have a new 21 in the wind that will compliment their new Summarit range and the 28 ASPH Elmarit. I will wait if alot of you think its likely they will. I hate buying and then reselling so I dont want to buy one and have to sell it again if i can avoid it. What do you think? Should I wait? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 11, 2007 Posted November 11, 2007 Hi captain, Take a look here Do you think a new compact 21mm is likely?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Mark Pope Posted November 11, 2007 Share #2 Posted November 11, 2007 Sorry to hear about the demise of your 21. Like you I'm hoping that Leica will bring out a new compact 21mm or 24mm lens to complement the Summarits. I'm not holding my breath though. Even if Leica were to announce something today, it will take several months before they would be widely available. So if I were in your shoes, I'd look for a user cv 21mm to tide me over. Best, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 11, 2007 Share #3 Posted November 11, 2007 I have a 21 asph: an excellent lens but bulky and heavy (mine is chrome...); is not an "old" for Leica standards but is high priced (I was lucky to find a used mint and complete for 1700 Euros, including trip for coding), and 21 is a standard WA for M8, not a SWA, so I wouldn't be surprised if they'll announce during this year (2nd half, I bet), a new lens 3,5 to 4,5, priced 1200-1500 Euros... wait or buy another CV (you'll lose no much selling it later, in case) ... I suppose the Biogon shall be no far from the hipotetical Leica, in pricing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 12, 2007 Share #4 Posted November 12, 2007 But.... I prefer the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 even to the Leica 21/2.8, it has a more subtle rendering imo. I would look for one of those. (but the mount must be changed to code it, which is easy to do and not expensive.) A new Leica 4.0/21 would certainly have the same character as all other new Leica lenses in the lower price-bracket and the Zeiss is better than that........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted November 12, 2007 Share #5 Posted November 12, 2007 But.... I prefer the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 even to the Leica 21/2.8, it has a more subtle rendering imo. Are you sure Jaap ... i consider the 21mm asph as the most subtle of all of the Leica ASPH lenses, with the exception perhaps of the 35/ 1,4 asph which i never owned so can not judge or compare to. Just wonder in which respect you consider 21 Zeiss more subtle .... it is in my opinion harsher, with higher contrast and less pleasant bokeh than the Leica..... might be a tad sharper in the corners though. For tonality, color and bokeh i prefered the Leica by quite some distance ... which does not mean the Zeiss is not an excellent lens..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 12, 2007 Share #6 Posted November 12, 2007 In colour rendering to my eye, especially with nighttime and evening shots.Han. In full daylight the Leica asph can play out its superior microcontrast. Anyway, excellent lenses all..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted November 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) "A new Leica 4.0/21 would certainly have the same character as all other new Leica lenses in the lower price-bracket and the Zeiss is better than that........" Thanks for the replies so far. It may be true that the Zeiss offerings in some focal lengths are, in absolute terms, superior than any new lower cost Leica lens but for me 2 factors would override this. Firstly is size. the more compact the better (Hence why the 2 Elmarit 21's aren't really an option) but you have to balance this with other things, taking 39mm filters would be ideal. Also it would be good to have a continuity with my 4 other Leica lenses so that same "character" would be an attraction. The older Voigtlander is good but it does have a slightly different signature to the Leica lenses although that could be an illusion of an ultra wide focal length. Some say that the brand signatures of Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander become less noticable the wider you go? With no real users of the Summarits out there its yet to be determined that the Zeiss offerings are actually better, certainly the new lower cost 28mm Elmarit ASPH has proven worthy competition to the 28mm Biogon and is also more compact. Those that say all this extra choice in Rangefinder equipment is a good thing have alot to answer for! LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 12, 2007 Share #8 Posted November 12, 2007 There's certainly space for one or more lower cost wide-angles, 18/21/24 f4, though it would be interesting to know if the Frankenfinder would be required or whether there would be dedicated lower cost finders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted November 12, 2007 Share #9 Posted November 12, 2007 Yes a tiny 21/4.5 with a 39mm filter would be nice. Viewfinder is optional as the full frame provides fairly accurate cropping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBA Posted November 12, 2007 Share #10 Posted November 12, 2007 But.... I prefer the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8 even to the Leica 21/2.8, it has a more subtle rendering imo. I would look for one of those. (but the mount must be changed to code it, which is easy to do and not expensive.) A new Leica 4.0/21 would certainly have the same character as all other new Leica lenses in the lower price-bracket and the Zeiss is better than that........ Are you sure Jaap ... i consider the 21mm asph as the most subtle of all of the Leica ASPH lenses, with the exception perhaps of the 35/ 1,4 asph which i never owned so can not judge or compare to. Just wonder in which respect you consider 21 Zeiss more subtle .... it is in my opinion harsher, with higher contrast and less pleasant bokeh than the Leica..... might be a tad sharper in the corners though. For tonality, color and bokeh i prefered the Leica by quite some distance ... which does not mean the Zeiss is not an excellent lens..... This demands a shoot-off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted November 12, 2007 Share #11 Posted November 12, 2007 You might consider the 24mm Elmarit ASPH. It is nearly as wide as the 21 but does not require an optional viewfinder (on the M8) and is not particularly large or heavy. I think the optics are as good as any lens out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 12, 2007 Share #12 Posted November 12, 2007 I think the optics are as good as any lens out there. I agree, the rendition of colour and detail is outstanding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted November 13, 2007 Share #13 Posted November 13, 2007 This demands a shoot-off! I did a comparison of the major 21s (and one minor 21) several months ago. So the information exists in great detail. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 13, 2007 Share #14 Posted November 13, 2007 Mr Leica, give me a tiny 21/4 like the Skopar with less vignetting please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
palaeoboy Posted November 13, 2007 Share #15 Posted November 13, 2007 "I did a comparison of the major 21s (and one minor 21) several months ago. So the information exists in great detail." Is this information available to all or is this a subtle plug for a pay to view site? LOL. I think the call for a shoot out was one for everyone to share and discuss openly without concerns for breaching any copywrite and also something full frame. Crop factor digital tests still leave a bit of unknown as to the full capabilities of lenses for those wanting to use them with film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted November 13, 2007 Mr Leica, give me a tiny 21/4 like the Skopar with less vignetting please. Basically thats just what I want! If one is comming out soon(ish) I will wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted November 13, 2007 Share #17 Posted November 13, 2007 A 21mm lens on the M8 is equivalent to a 28 on full frame. Would you buy a 28mm f:4.5 lens? I would not. I do not expect any more compact, i.e. slower, 21mm lens. Its usefulness would be very limited. What we do need is a rangefinder-coupled, filter-capable 16mm lens with a speed of about 4.0. I am eagerly waiting for the death of the WATE. Meanwhile, CV does serve. The old man from the Age of the Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 13, 2007 Share #18 Posted November 13, 2007 What we do need is a rangefinder-coupled, filter-capable 16mm lens with a speed of about 4.0. I am eagerly waiting for the death of the WATE. Meanwhile, CV does serve. That's what I'm waiting for too - though f3.5 would be nice. It would more or less complete my Leica M lens line up. Not so sure why you would be 'eagerly waiting' for the death of the WATE, I had a play with one in Berlin and the image quality is excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted November 13, 2007 Share #19 Posted November 13, 2007 A 21mm lens on the M8 is equivalent to a 28 on full frame. Would you buy a 28mm f:4.5 lens? I would not. I do not expect any more compact, i.e. slower, 21mm lens. Its usefulness would be very limited. What we do need is a rangefinder-coupled, filter-capable 16mm lens with a speed of about 4.0. I am eagerly waiting for the death of the WATE. Meanwhile, CV does serve. The old man from the Age of the Elmar Different strokes Lars. When I use a wide angle it's stopped down for max DOF f/8 would be an OK max aperture for me. For those that use a 28 as a normal lens the lack of fast wides because of the crop sensor is an issue and with the M that's a large group. However not everyone falls into that category. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted November 13, 2007 A 21mm lens on the M8 is equivalent to a 28 on full frame. Would you buy a 28mm f:4.5 lens? I would not. I do not expect any more compact, i.e. slower, 21mm lens. Its usefulness would be very limited. What we do need is a rangefinder-coupled, filter-capable 16mm lens with a speed of about 4.0. I am eagerly waiting for the death of the WATE. Meanwhile, CV does serve. The old man from the Age of the Elmar Without doubt the M8 is a popular camera but in the scheme of M mount cameras of different brands built past and present its really only a small percentage so for the rest a slower 21mm that wasn't really used as much as the more common focal lengths would be ideal. The Voigtlander 21mm has proven one of their most popular lenses and one of the finest 21's on the market. Leica could have grabbed that market had they listened to users. With issue of a slow 28mm for the M8, well the Voigltlander 28mm f3.5 again was a quite popular lens with good reviews. If a lens is compact enough people are prepared to give up the speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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