Q2/Q3 or Hasselblad X2D? Which do you choose?

[Olaf_ZG]

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On 6/9/2023 at 6:57 PM, Olaf_ZG said:within two weeks I will be doing ten days of long exposure seascapes and those 10 days will be deciding which system will be suitable for me.

Long exposures with the SL2-s were disappointing, and now I am wondering which path to go: wait for a SL3 and hope for better performance or try HB? Used prices for the x1d ii are really low, and so are the “older” x lenses. Looks like Leica holding its value a bit better.

If I go for HB, I will use the SL only with zooms (and m-lenses), will sell-off the apo 35.

The Q went out today.

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[Vonnie]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:57 PM, Olaf_ZG said:

To me it would not be a question of the x2d vs the q, but more vs the sl.

the sl3 will be only slightly cheaper whereas the lenses are slightly more expensive. 

next to that, the x2d plus 24mm (ff view) is available right now, whereas the sl3 and 24mm far away.

within two weeks I will be doing ten days of long exposure seascapes and those 10 days will be deciding which system will be suitable for me.

Hi Olaf, I'm trying to decide between an SL2 and the X2D, I enjoy long exposure seascapes and wondered how you got on with the SL? I already have an M11 so the SL2 would probably be the most sensible option but I am concerned about its long exposure capabilities. 

[Olaf_ZG]

@VonnieThough the SL2-s is a great camera, to me it isn’t for long exposure (mine go up to 15 minutes). You need LENR, so times are double, and composing with camera being either very low or high is awkward due to lack of flipscreen.

still waiting for the SL3, though with recent problems with new releases, I am not sure how long one needs to wait. HB is still an open option (in which I keep current SL with zooms).

 

[Vonnie]

21 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

@VonnieThough the SL2-s is a great camera, to me it isn’t for long exposure (mine go up to 15 minutes). You need LENR, so times are double, and composing with camera being either very low or high is awkward due to lack of flipscreen.

still waiting for the SL3, though with recent problems with new releases, I am not sure how long one needs to wait. HB is still an open option (in which I keep current SL with zooms).

 

Thanks, I appreciate your opinion Olaf. I'm leaning very heavily towards the HB now. 

[adrianh]

Very interesting thoughts and insights from all here, nevertheless: should't this more be like H2D vs Leica M11? A fixed lens vs. a full blown system camera is IMHO less comparable than the AF vs manual, no? Same goes for the MSRPs...

[doc steel]

One thing the most forget to mention: 
The most expensive lens for the X1/2D (XCD 35-75) costs just over €5000.
Now compare what you get from Leica for this amount.
This means that you are well represented in the middle class at Leica (M and SL), but the lenses from the top league require twice as much.
Not to mention the S-Lenses. They are outrageously expensive, which in my opinion is a bottomless audacity, because there is really nothing other than just the name that would actually make them so expensive.
At Hasselblad, however, every lens is an APO in terms of IQ. Hasselblad does not differentiate between different performance classes and does not have to write it down in capital letters everywhere and show it off. At Hasselblad, this is assumed and is a given.

Edited December 16, 2023 by doc steel

[bags27]

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10 hours ago, doc steel said:

One thing the most forget to mention: 
The most expensive lens for the X1/2D (XCD 35-75) costs just over €5000.
Now compare what you get from Leica for this amount.
This means that you are well represented in the middle class at Leica (M and SL), but the lenses from the top league require twice as much.
Not to mention the S-Lenses. They are outrageously expensive, which in my opinion is a bottomless audacity, because there is really nothing other than just the name that would actually make them so expensive.
At Hasselblad, however, every lens is an APO in terms of IQ. Hasselblad does not differentiate between different performance classes and does not have to write it down in capital letters everywhere and show it off. At Hasselblad, this is assumed and is a given.

I own neither digital system, but this isn't my impression.

1. There is a robust second-hand market in S lenses that are relatively inexpensive, especially if one doesn't require the newer CS versions for faster flash.

2. I think APO is a description of a particular type of apochromatic correction. Not every lens requires this and non-APO lenses are not necessarily of lower IQ.

3. Hasselblad actually does have two different standards, since two of its lenses are "P" rather than "X" lenses. And within the "X" lenses there are 3 newer lenses that are constructed differently and have faster autofocus response than the others.

I write this as a passionate Hasselblad 500 cm owner and future 907x 50c or 100c owner. 

I won't own an S system because of its weight. But I honestly believe the Leica S system renders more beautifully than any digital camera made. That it has (at least until the next version) an OVF is another important plus for me.

Edited December 17, 2023 by bags27

[dancook]

I’m back to the opinion of both!

got X2D 38,55,80 want to replace 80 with 90 and get Q3 too

only that means rejoining the Q3 queue..

[Camaro5]

I don't believe it's a fair comparison because it's not an either/or situation.  They are completely different cameras.  If you have a Hasselblad a Q2/Q3 would be a nice complementary camera, but the Leica could easily stand on its own if you didn't want or need medium format and the additional expense of the lenses.  

[dancook]

3 hours ago, Camaro5 said:

I don't believe it's a fair comparison because it's not an either/or situation.  They are completely different cameras.  If you have a Hasselblad a Q2/Q3 would be a nice complementary camera, but the Leica could easily stand on its own if you didn't want or need medium format and the additional expense of the lenses.  

Well I take a look at what I shoot and consider how much I can do with one camera happily.

Maybe I want the IQ and hasselblad colours for portraits.

do I need a Leica Q3 still? There’s overlap with the 38V. I can actually use the 38V for fast paced street photography with manual zone focussing - but do I want to?

if I used the Q3 for that I could shoot fast paced street using AF at f1.7 and get a different look that I prefer.

but does the the cost make sense for that benefit. 

I can use the Hasselblad for live music, but if it gets lively it gets more difficult to AF and the Q3 would have a much higher hit rate.

I want both cameras but I need to justify the desire to get both. For me that is identifying enough situations where one camera excels over the other.

 

if I wasn’t so spoilt I can make do with either if needed

[adrianh]

You could just sell your 38V, add some cash and replace it with the Q3. The lens alone costs about 70% of the full Q3…

[dancook]

21 minutes ago, adrianh said:

You could just sell your 38V, add some cash and replace it with the Q3. The lens alone costs about 70% of the full Q3…

Yes sounds a bit sensible but I’m wondering if I have a photoshoot where I want consistency of IQ between focal lengths…

Or in general i want to do environment portraits with the hasselblad specifically 

[IkarusJohn]

Having an X2D and a 38v, I see zero point in a Q3.

I like the idea (I liked the idea of the Zeiss ZX1 and the Sony equivalent), but having a medium format sensor makes a huge difference. 

[dancook]

I’d also use the Q3 for weddings but not the 38V. 

Without owning the Q3 I’d just use a Sony A1 with 24GM, but I’d prefer the Q3.

[adrianh]

I am also flirting with the idea of a X2D, with the 55V and the 28P, maybe adding the 90V when available. Because of the Q3, I’d skip the 38V. 

[Chris W]

Having had an original Q and now owning an X1D2 I do think there is a comparison to be made.

I absolutely loved my Q, image quality, build quality, colours out of camera. I just didn't;t want to shoot at 28mm (26?) all the time. I know since the Q2/Q3 you can crop in.

Although bigger and heavier, I still feel the X1D2 with the 45p lens is very ergonomic and a comfortable walk around camera. The images are stunning, the colours are gorgeous and need no fixing. The 45p gives me the 35mm equivalent I would have loved in the Q.

Both systems haver great image quality. The Q3 is lighter and I imagine much better with focus than the X series. The X series also offers amazing image quality, but the ability to change lens.

[Einst_Stein]

2 hours ago, Chris W said:

Having had an original Q and now owning an X1D2 I do think there is a comparison to be made.

I absolutely loved my Q, image quality, build quality, colours out of camera. I just didn't;t want to shoot at 28mm (26?) all the time. I know since the Q2/Q3 you can crop in.

Although bigger and heavier, I still feel the X1D2 with the 45p lens is very ergonomic and a comfortable walk around camera. The images are stunning, the colours are gorgeous and need no fixing. The 45p gives me the 35mm equivalent I would have loved in the Q.

Both systems haver great image quality. The Q3 is lighter and I imagine much better with focus than the X series. The X series also offers amazing image quality, but the ability to change lens.

Qx is excellent, and probably the best ever single camera that can cover 50% of usage. But it is not enough. Cropping Q can't replace a true longer lens without cropping. 

So here X2D shows its value. 

But I compared X2D with SLx and Sx. Xs series lenses are generally one or more stop smaller in aperture. Not much, but unfortunatley exactly what Leica's glass significantly shining. Even Contax/Zeiss 645 shows much sweeter IQ. 

[Chris W]

The only XCD lens that gets you into Q territory is the 45p, maybe one of the new V lenses. Most XCD or Leica SL lenses are big, heavy and not EDC worthy IMO.

Even the affordable 45p delivers superb image quality in my opinion, albeit F4 aperture.

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Look here: Leica Q

[Einst_Stein]

12 minutes ago, Chris W said:

The only XCD lens that gets you into Q territory is the 45p, maybe one of the new V lenses. Most XCD or Leica SL lenses are big, heavy and not EDC worthy IMO.

Even the affordable 45p delivers superb image quality in my opinion, albeit F4 aperture.

I don;t own X2d, I merely tried it a few miniutes. To me X2D+ 45P is an excellent landscape tool. Portability would not be the goal though. At least I don't care much if eyeing on X2D.

For portability, my favorite set is Leica XV + XU. XV for flexibility, XU for the prime sweetness. Since I just got Q3, XV + Q3 might be the next alternative, still struggling. 

[Photon42]

The X2D with the 38V is similar to a Q regarding the focal length and max aperture.