Capture One updates. Are they now too expensive?

[wda]

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Smudgerer, this independent product has been on my watch list for some time. It is the nearest to LR that I have found. It might be worth a free trial. Here is a link to the site listing free tutorials on video. https://exposure.software/tutorials/

A Catalogue is vital for me and it seems to be compatible. 

Has anyone any experience with this product?

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[Anbaric]

23 minutes ago, wda said:

Smudgerer, this independent product has been on my watch list for some time. It is the nearest to LR that I have found. It might be worth a free trial. Here is a link to the site listing free tutorials on video. https://exposure.software/tutorials/

A Catalogue is vital for me and it seems to be compatible. 

Has anyone any experience with this product?

I think 'catatalog free design' means that it doesn't have a catalogue.

You might want to look at ON1, which does, or PS Elements.

[Bobitybob]

7 hours ago, wda said:

Smudgerer, this independent product has been on my watch list for some time. It is the nearest to LR that I have found. It might be worth a free trial. Here is a link to the site listing free tutorials on video. https://exposure.software/tutorials/

A Catalogue is vital for me and it seems to be compatible. 

Has anyone any experience with this product?

I used Exposure X6 for about 12 months before switching back to Adobe via the Photographers subscription model.

I found Exposure to be very Lightroom like and an easy transition from that product. It worked very well and I understand the current version includes more masking and Ai than the version I used.  It also includes a way to import images from a Lightroom catalogue.

It doesn't use a catalogue, but creates a folder inside the folder where the images are stored to hold XMP files for each image you edit.

I switched back to Lightroom because it was having difficulties with my Fuji GFX files but I never had a problem with any Leica files.  I also found the Keywording process a little 'clunky' but that may have been down to the fact that I was so used to using the Lightroom version.

I've recommended it here a few times as an alternative to Lightroom if you wish to leave the subscription model but like the general way Lightroom works.  I'm not sure about now, but they used to offer a full trial version which is happy to coexist with Lightroom so may be worth a try.

 

Edited January 30, 2024 by Bobitybob

[wda]

Yes, they still offer a 30 day free trial. I asked support  where they stored processing instructions.  They are stored in side-car files and would thus be backed up whenever the image file is backed up. In many ways, that makes  ore sense, assuming a photographer has a regular back up policy.  The latest version has an easier way to  mask an object. Also, from time to time there are valuable offers.

[Smudgerer]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:50 AM, wda said:

Smudgerer, this independent product has been on my watch list for some time. It is the nearest to LR that I have found. It might be worth a free trial. Here is a link to the site listing free tutorials on video. https://exposure.software/tutorials/

A Catalogue is vital for me and it seems to be compatible. 

Has anyone any experience with this product?

Thank you for this David, it looks like it's worth a consideration for sure. I will have to see how it integrates with my Lightroom Classic library, ( how and if at all in a useful way, ( the website is somewhat vague on that score ), and how it stores or references finished processed images, also how it handles B&W which is easily 85% of what I do. I will pick up a trial soon and take a test drive with it.

I will try to see how it pulls in images already worked in LRC and if they are close to what LRC produced and saved, or whether one would have to begin again with the files.

It sort of reminds me a bit of Aperture which isn't such a bad thing...............and it would pay for itself in a year when the cost is put against the Adobe subscription I already have.

[wda]

From my experience, you could put your query to Exposure Software and get a response fairly quickly.  I have no experience of cloud storage and how you would transfer hosting. Maybe other members do.

[Smudgerer]

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I don't do Cloud storage anyway, everything is on hard drives with double back-ups.

[maxpower]

I haven't read the whole thread so this might have been discussed already, but I wanted to add my opinions on the pricing of CaptureOne.

One of the reasons I went CaptureOne instead of Adobe was the "Perpetual License". But now looking back, I think it might have been a mistake.

I bought my current license 10 months ago, I had to because the M11-P I just bought (Nov 2023) was not supported by the 16.2 perpetual license I bought in (March 2022). So I reluctantly buy the 16.3 license instead, with the "loyal" 40% discount. The first 16.3 release was Nov 2, 2023. Now, I just checked the website and see that they are already on 16.4.5 (the first 16.4 release was May 14, 2024) which I can't get because I have the perpetual license for 16.3 only. So between first 16.3 and 16.4 releases is a difference of about 7 months - you're not even getting a full year of support. That's kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

It's not that I care about the latest features either, but potential bugfixes and/or camera support, yeah of course. And I wouldn't expect to get that support forever either, but already be out of luck in just 7 months.. that just feels ridiculous. So in my eyes the perpetual license just doesn't seem worth it, unfortunately. 

End of rant.

[wlaidlaw]

34 minutes ago, maxpower said:

I haven't read the whole thread so this might have been discussed already, but I wanted to add my opinions on the pricing of CaptureOne.

One of the reasons I went CaptureOne instead of Adobe was the "Perpetual License". But now looking back, I think it might have been a mistake.

I bought my current license 10 months ago, I had to because the M11-P I just bought (Nov 2023) was not supported by the 16.2 perpetual license I bought in (March 2022). So I reluctantly buy the 16.3 license instead, with the "loyal" 40% discount. The first 16.3 release was Nov 2, 2023. Now, I just checked the website and see that they are already on 16.4.5 (the first 16.4 release was May 14, 2024) which I can't get because I have the perpetual license for 16.3 only. So between first 16.3 and 16.4 releases is a difference of about 7 months - you're not even getting a full year of support. That's kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

It's not that I care about the latest features either, but potential bugfixes and/or camera support, yeah of course. And I wouldn't expect to get that support forever either, but already be out of luck in just 7 months.. that just feels ridiculous. So in my eyes the perpetual license just doesn't seem worth it, unfortunately. 

End of rant.

Typical private equity bandit behaviour but they will find that folks vote with their feet and if there is a paucity of Capture One users at the end of the current cycle, they will only have their greed to blame. 

Wilson

[Luke_Miller]

I'm a long time Capture One user.  I started with the perpetual license and now have the subscription.  Same with Lightroom.  Now that digital cameras have reached a level of maturity, the rapid advances in photography are occurring on the digital processing side.  Each new release of both C1 and Lightroom contain a variety of new features that I find extremely valuable. They expand the capability of my existing equipment and help me recover from my errors.  I find the subscription model allows me to minimize the need to upgrade equipment. YMMV.

[Anbaric]

5 hours ago, maxpower said:

It's not that I care about the latest features either, but potential bugfixes and/or camera support, yeah of course. And I wouldn't expect to get that support forever either, but already be out of luck in just 7 months.. that just feels ridiculous. So in my eyes the perpetual license just doesn't seem worth it, unfortunately.

It is ridiculous, and there were many, many complaints on the C1 forum and elsewhere about the new upgrade policy (i.e., a dot release now counts as a new version) when it was introduced. All these complaints were, of course, ignored. The effective support period just isn't adequate for such an expensive piece of software, and the intention is obviously to drive everyone to subscriptions. The same private equity management also killed off recent versions of Capture One Express, the 'free' version for Fuji, Sony and Nikon. They didn't just stop updating it, or even block new activations, they actually nuked installed copies. What will happen, I wonder, when they no longer want to support old 'perpetual' licences for the paid product?

[jaapv]

So Adobe isn’t that bad after all… At least they deliver constant and substantial updates for a reasonably priced subscription. 

[Olaf_ZG]

18 minutes ago, jaapv said:

So Adobe isn’t that bad after all… At least they deliver constant and substantial updates for a reasonably priced subscription. 

I migrated about 20 months ago from C1 to LR and it took me a while to get the color to my liking, but having done this, I don’t see the need to go back. Photoshop I don’t use though, as I can do it all in LR.

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I migrated about 20 months ago from C1 to LR and it took me a while to get the color to my liking, but having done this, I don’t see the need to go back.

Agree. LR can do a lot that C1 can do and more.

However, when tethered, client-supervised work is what you do, or you are working on projects that produce tons of similar images and clients are involved too (i.e. weddings, events, etc.), or you are converting negatives, respectively working in an archival process, then C1 shines. For many, C1 is a (relatively) expensive editing solution that doesn't meet their requirements. That's why today, C1 is marketed mainly to professionals who can leverage C1's unique tools and prefer time-saving over money-saving. BTW, I am positive that C1 will be subscription-only in the near future.

 

 

 

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, hansvons said:

Agree. LR can do a lot that C1 can do and more.

However, when tethered, client-supervised work is what you do, or you are working on projects that produce tons of similar images and clients are involved too (i.e. weddings, events, etc.), or you are converting negatives, respectively working in an archival process, then C1 shines. For many, C1 is a (relatively) expensive editing solution that doesn't meet their requirements. That's why today, C1 is marketed mainly to professionals who can leverage C1's unique tools and prefer time-saving over money-saving. BTW, I am positive that C1 will be subscription-only in the near future.

 

 

 

And you get Photoshop included that can do ( nearly) it all. 

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

So Adobe isn’t that bad after all… At least they deliver constant and substantial updates for a reasonably priced subscription. 

One company behaving badly doesn't make another less bad. While killing 'free' software you have already installed is something that might make even Adobe blush, C1 haven't yet cynically deprived their customers of 'perpetually' licensed software they may well have spent thousands on. It wouldn't surprise me if they eventually do this, of course. C1's new management have obviously studied the playbook of Adobe's current management closely, and they want subscribers rather than those awful purchasers who might not buy every single version they release just as badly. A lucrative world in which everything is rented and nothing is owned suits all these companies just fine.

[Bobonli]

Wow!! The level of hate that can be leveled against a corporation is astonishing. I wonder how some people exist in life if everywhere they look they see corporate malfeasance toward its customers. I hope you apply the same level of scrutiny and outrage toward the automobile, gas, food, clothing, banking (I can go on all morning) industries! Let's not even get into cable tv and streaming subscription models.

I wish we could keep the conversation to : this software does this, this other software does that...and not harp on how evil the subscription models are. A corporation's FIRST responsibility is to make money. Everything else is gravy. They are free to make decisions the customers don't like in pursuit of that goal. If enough customers don't like the product, they leave and the corporation must adjust or fail. 

[jaapv]

I really cannot follow this. Stuff gets obsolete and loses support. Try getting service for a T model at a Ford dealer. Even if you own it outright. 
Adobe updates continuously and charges continuously. Updating never was for free. 

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[wlaidlaw]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

So Adobe isn’t that bad after all… At least they deliver constant and substantial updates for a reasonably priced subscription. 

I just wish they had a more reasonably priced add in for Acrobat but that almost doubles the cost of the photographer bundle. I use another app called UPDF which is OK but nothing like as good as the full Acrobat. I used to have a academic priced version of Acrobat via my SIL who is a professor at Johns Hopkins but that expired a long time ago. 

Wilson

[Anbaric]

21 minutes ago, Bobonli said:

Wow!! The level of hate that can be leveled against a corporation is astonishing. I wonder how some people exist in life if everywhere they look they see corporate malfeasance toward its customers. I hope you apply the same level of scrutiny and outrage toward the automobile, gas, food, clothing, banking (I can go on all morning) industries! Let's not even get into cable tv and streaming subscription models.

I wish we could keep the conversation to : this software does this, this other software does that...and not harp on how evil the subscription models are. A corporation's FIRST responsibility is to make money. Everything else is gravy. They are free to make decisions the customers don't like in pursuit of that goal. If enough customers don't like the product, they leave and the corporation must adjust or fail. 

20 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I really cannot follow this. Stuff gets obsolete and loses support. Try getting service for a T model at a Ford dealer. Even if you own it outright. 
Adobe updates continuously and charges continuously. Updating never was for free. 

This, the earlier post by @jaapv, and my response to it really belong in the other thread split off for this purpose, where I think this has been thrashed out already. I don't 'hate' these companies, but I don't have to like them either. Bringing in other industries with poor reputations is really just whataboutery. There's nothing inherently evil about a subscription model, but both Adobe and C1 have behaved poorly in their efforts to drive more customers towards it.

In Adobe's case, they have deliberately prevented activation and therefore installation of CS1-4, with 5 & 6 sure to follow. Activation counts can no longer be reset manually even for CS6, which was sold until 2017, so if your hardware dies you can lose the software for good, even if you spent thousands on the Master Collection. I don't think this is the same thing as withdrawing 'support'. Nobody is expecting new feature updates or raw format support or even bug fixes. The activation system exists purely for Adobe's benefit. Something that was touted as a mechanism to prevent software 'theft' is now ironically being used as a means of taking software away from paying customers. Adobe's pledge to honour their perpetual licenses by ensuring that customers would always be able to activate no matter what has been casually discarded. They could easily do this just by providing activation-free installers for users with valid licence keys, as they briefly did for CS3, but they simply won't.

In C1's case, using a remote kill switch nobody knew existed to nuke all those Capture One Express installations was particularly egregious. Sure, this wasn't software the customers had paid for directly (though they had bought cameras from Fuji, Sony, or Nikon who, in turn, presumably had financial arrangements with C1). But all the time users invested in learning the software, not to mention their lossless edits and any add-ons they may have bought, were now worthless unless they paid up for the full product or subscribed to it. Hard to trust a company that behaves like that, especially when this followed their earlier shift in policy about the support period of the 'perpetually' licensed full product, which has now become ridiculously short for such an expensive package. Not so much a nudge to subscribe, but a hard shove in the face.

27 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

I just wish they had a more reasonably priced add in for Acrobat but that almost doubles the cost of the photographer bundle.

Same for Illustrator and InDesign. I would need the £57/month CC subscription to replace my CS6 Design Standard suite. 18 months of that comes to about what the DS 'perpetual' licence used to cost, something the big boosters of the £10/month plan don't seem to get (I used to skip a couple of updates routinely, so the subscription effectively triples the cost, as well as granting no continued use at the end).