Capture One updates. Are they now too expensive?

[wlaidlaw]

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I have been a Capture one user for close to 20 years. I am currently using version 21. The latest version is 23 and the upgrade price appears to be £299 for a marginal improvement over 21. This is too much when there are now plenty of other far cheaper alternatives on the market. Also the paid upgrades are too frequent. Luckily the older versions continue to work, at least fro the present. The annual subscriber cost is £179 which is more I think that I currently pay for the Adobe Photographer package, Photoshop, Bridge, Lightroom (both versions) and Camera RAW plus various others I don't use. I think Phase One, the makers of C1, are pricing themselves out of the market. I suppose I will have to bite bullet and learn Lightroom, which I have never liked, since the early free Beta versions were released. Learning complicated new software is a heave for my elderly decrepit brain. I used to like Apple Aperture but they decided in their "wisdom" to dump that. 

Wilson

[skahde]

With C1 always wait for discounts and never pay the advertised price. You should be able to save about 30-40 %. 

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[zeitz]

10 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

a marginal improvement

This is the state of most software in the second decade of the 21st century.  The software is really good and does not need gimmicks, I mean improvements.  This applies to operating systems, word processing and spreadsheets as well as image post processing.  Data bases, such as camera profiles and lens corrections, need updates.  Security features need updates.  But the core functionality became excellent years ago.  The software companies want to retain their staffs.

It is interesting how the marketing term "AI" is changing from a feature to an evil demon.

[Anbaric]

25 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

Luckily the older versions continue to work, at least for the present.

I wonder for how long? Adobe tends to nuke activation of its legacy 'perpetual' licences after little more than a decade, which seems to be pretty much the industry standard. Anything that requires online activation should probably be viewed as a long subscription of uncertain duration, and one day you won't be able to re-install it (Adobe have stopped bothering to supply activation-free versions at end of life). I was disappointed when Affinity switched to online activation in the latest version, which means the software, though very reasonably priced, is no longer under the control of the user. Free/Open Source software is really the only thing that is, but in this space tends to be clunkier than the proprietary alternatives and often lacks decent camera-specific profiles for raw files, etc.

[wda]

There are many excellent videos to help you with Lightroom. Using two monitors, one for tutorials which you can stop at any point, and the other for your work, you can pace yourself and learn incrementally.  It is a good investment of time.

[Chris W]

45 minutes ago, wlaidlaw said:

I have been a Capture one user for close to 20 years. I am currently using version 21. The latest version is 23 and the upgrade price appears to be £299 for a marginal improvement over 21.

The same. I've probably been using it 20 years, and yes, I'm still on 21.

I'm kind of happy with CO21 and will still use it over Lightroom. I've rarely seen a deep discount offered.

[wlaidlaw]

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27 minutes ago, Chris W said:

The same. I've probably been using it 20 years, and yes, I'm still on 21.

I'm kind of happy with CO21 and will still use it over Lightroom. I've rarely seen a deep discount offered.

Certainly not a big enough discount to tempt me. I am saving for a Q3, where the dealer has warned me that the sticker price may come as an unpleasant shock. 

Wilson

[M11 for me]

vor 54 Minuten schrieb zeitz:

This is the state of most software in the second decade of the 21st century.  The software is really good and does not need gimmicks, I mean improvements.

Really good software today is outdated software tomorrow. 

When I look at Lightroom Classic then we see hughe steps from version to version. And the latest functions are far from being gimmics. 

Maybe you do not understand the progress that has been made. One has to be willing to permanently learn. But its fine when you think that you do not need more. But you will soon loose  connection. Do not forget that one.

 

[M11 for me]

Today I had to support a friend with somme computer issues. First he had an cell phone that was not protected by a password: His justification: He needs it just as telephone. Great. Then we sat at his Microsoft PC. We wanted to log into SMUGMUG. He had all his passwords on an Excel-sheet on his computer. When I asked him how he logs into eBanking . . . if he does not use his phone?

All good and fine. Progress is often just gimmics 🥵. 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by M11 for me

[Marc B-C]

I moved from 21 to 23 but do not recall paying more than about £100 in Nov 22 prebooked. I cannot currently find the relevant eMail, but certainly I did not pay anywhere near £200.

The annual subscription was only £89 (that I can confirm) due to a 40% discount I was given at the time the subscription service was offered back in Feb.

[wlaidlaw]

What concerns me about not updating C1 is camera profiles. At the moment C1-21 is fine as it includes my most recent camera, the M10-R but later this month, I hope to get a Q3 and that will certainly not be there. In the past Phase One have provided updates to older software for new camera profiles but I suspect they will stop doing this to make folks update. I am guessing that the Q3's DNG files will need profile tweaking unless it is all done in camera (lens corrections etc). 

Wilson

[Anbaric]

With the prices Leica charge, would it really be too much to ask for them to make available for free download a regularly updated raw processor with appropriate profiles for their cameras? Nearly all their competitors do this, several have more than one package, and Nikon, Sony and Fuji appear to have done some sort of deal with Phase One to provide limited Express version of C1 customised to their products. In fact, didn't Leica bundle a version of C1 themselves a few years ago? Nikon and Fuji have also released raw processors based on Silkypix, who seem happy to customise their product, so Leica could surely find a partner who would do most of the development for them - they'd just have to collaborate on the camera profiling.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Anbaric

[wlaidlaw]

41 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

With the prices Leica charge, would it really be too much to ask for them to make available for free download a regularly updated raw processor with appropriate profiles for their cameras?

Yes sadly it does seem too much to ask. In today's corporate world, greed rules. 

Wilson

[zeitz]

1 hour ago, M11 for me said:

When I look at Lightroom Classic then we see hughe steps from version to version. And the latest functions are far from being gimmics. 

What are the steps from Lightroom 11 to 12 that you use often?  I don't use Lightroom, but I have used Bridge/ACR/Photoshop since Photoshop CS.  I see interface changes.  ACR has changed to be almost exactly the same as Lightroom Develop.  Some plugins that used to work don't work anymore.  But I only see gradual changes in functionality over the years.

The best Windows OS was XP; then Microsoft wanted a PC to work like their cell phone; then Microsoft discontinued its cell phones but kept the interface.  System Settings in macOS Ventura is a mess compared to the older System Preferences.  My iPhone changes settings without permission when it updates.

[M11 for me]

vor 46 Minuten schrieb zeitz:

What are the steps from Lightroom 11 to 12 that you use often?

Thanks for asking.

1) The new tools set  is much more powerful: Take the stamps .

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2) Then we have great progress with the masks: When you photograph at receptions with many people you can correct your DNG in a way you never could before. Without ever using the brush: You just choose a person and choose hie/her face or dress or lips . . . 

3) You got AI for Denoise. The capability of that tool is at the level of Topaz Denoise AI

I think that this a lot of great additional functionality. I hope you agree.

The whole point is to me: How was Lightroom 3 years ago or 2 years ago or one year ago. That is what counts for me and that is the reason why I would never go away from the subscription model. Without such a model people tend to think "should I take the next version or should I stay with what I have?" With such an attitude you loose connection very soon. On the other hand you save a little bit of money . . . 

Another important point to me: We tend to believe that we do NOT need this or that. But without following the development you stop learning.

Edited May 2, 2023 by M11 for me

[Anbaric]

18 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

I think that this a lot of great additional functionality. I hope you agree.

Depends what kind of photographer you are. If you're shooting weddings or flattering portraits or idealised landscapes where retouching is expected, the more control you have over local edits the better. But if you're a journalist or a documentary photographer, or even a scientist preparing technical illustrations, you generally can't alter anything bigger than a dust spot and the permitted toolbox for cropping or modest global adjustment of colour and contrast was probably complete in the CS days. But with CC or other subscription software, you have to continue paying, whether the improvements are useful to you or not.

[dpitt]

4 hours ago, Chris W said:

The same. I've probably been using it 20 years, and yes, I'm still on 21.

I'm kind of happy with CO21 and will still use it over Lightroom. I've rarely seen a deep discount offered.

I happened to buy C1P 23 for 200€ only 2 weeks ago. Updates are included until end of '23. It was a discount  from a shop clearing 'stock' probably because at the time nothing was in promotion at the Capture one site.
To me this is still cheaper than the smallest annual subscription Adobe has to offer, and I like C1P the approach better than LR.  This sum would only buy me 1,5 years of LR subscription and I think I would not really need an update for at least a few years, because I always buy used gear.

[M11 for me]

vor 35 Minuten schrieb Anbaric:

Depends what kind of photographer you are. If you're shooting weddings or flattering portraits or idealised landscapes where retouching is expected, the more control you have over local edits the better. But if you're a journalist or a documentary photographer, or even a scientist preparing technical illustrations, you generally can't alter anything bigger than a dust spot and the permitted toolbox for cropping or modest global adjustment of colour and contrast was probably complete in the CS days. But with CC or other subscription software, you have to continue paying, whether the improvements are useful to you or not.

You are completely right. 

I do landscape, towns/tourism and events. For me advanced functions are worth millions. I am prepared to pay for what I call progress.

[hansvons]

8 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

The annual subscriber cost is £179 which is more I think that I currently pay for the Adobe Photographer package, Photoshop, Bridge, Lightroom (both versions) and Camera RAW plus various others I don't use. I think Phase One, the makers of C1, are pricing themselves out of the market.

If I were feeling like you, I'd jump ship. C1 serves a niche market, and it serves me well. If that isn't yours, there are alternatives LR being the obvious one.

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[wlaidlaw]

1 minute ago, hansvons said:

If I were feeling like you, I'd jump ship. C1 serves a niche market, and it serves me well. If that isn't yours, there are alternatives LR being the obvious one.

I have never really liked LR. It just does not seem to work the way my brain does. Everything about it seems anti-instinctual to me. I know a few others also feel like that. I suspect if C1-21 is deprecated or does not get updated camera profiles, I will just manage with Bridge, Camera RAW and PS. 

Wilson