Rangefinder vertically misaligned but only at close distances?

[jagstang]

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I bought a new M11 in November when visiting Germany and realised after coming back to the UK that the rangefinder’s vertical alignment was off by a bit, which was slightly annoying but not the end of the world. For some reason the Leica store in London couldn’t fix it in situ (I’ve done it myself on my M3 and I know it takes 5 min, but I didn’t want to risk removing the red dot myself). They agreed to send it off to Wetzlar for repair and give me an M10 loaner as I needed a body for professional work.

Two and a half months later I got my M11 back, and the focus at infinity was perfect. But yesterday I was taking photos at close distances and I noticed the vertical alignment was off, making it very hard to focus especially when taking vertical photos and when you rely on leaves, textures or even someone’s eyes to focus. The strangest thing is that vertical alignment is still perfect at infinity, but the closer I focus, the more misaligned it gets. It’s only obviously apparent below ~2 meters.

I compared it side by side with my film bodies, one of them CLA’d by Cameraworks UK, and they focus consistently across all distances unlike my M11. I also tried focusing with three different lenses (35mm and 50mm, one of them also CLA’d recently) and I get the same problem so it’s definitely the body.

When I received the camera back, I didn’t think of checking focus at closer distances as I assumed that when the vertical alignment is off, it’s off evenly across all distances—at least this was the case the only time I ever had to adjust the rangefinder in 17 years I’ve been using Leicas. 

I’m starting to think that perhaps my body is defective? Or am I missing something? Is vertical misalignment more apparent at different distances or has the mechanism changed with digital bodies?

My film M’s never had this issue, so it’s really disappointing, especially this being my first digital body.

[jakontil]

There’s some parallax error at close focus distance where the vertical alignment seems off that’s what i notice but my case might be different 

[jaapv]

I. think that a hinge point in the mechanism is out of tolerance. Pretty rare, so no wonder they missed it.

[Warton]

I noticed that too. With close distance the focus panel is slightly lower the actual picture. I think it's parallax. I don't bother.

[DenverSteve]

Sounds like another trip to the Leica store is in order.  Unfortunately, sometime a product is not perfect from the start and attention will have to be paid to it.  I know it sucks.  At least the Leica store gave you a loaner even though you didn't purchase yours from them.  

[jagstang]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It does seem like some sort of parallax error, but the strange thing is that it doesn't have with a few M2s and an M3 that I have, which made me wonder if it's something else. I'm guessing that when they adjusted it at Leica they only checked the accuracy at infinity (as did I initially). Hopefully, @jaapv, as you say, it's a mechanism out of tolerance and it can be fixed.

I'll get in touch with Leica and see what they say... really annoying to have to send it off again. By the time I get it back, it will have spent more time being repaired in Wetzlar than with me. At least it's just an annoyance and I can still work around it, so I might send it off only when they can guarantee a loaner. At least I haven't got any of the freezing errors a lot of people seem to have been getting!

[SrMi]

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I like using a SooPii USB-C cable with a built-in LED showing the charging status.

[Crem]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:51 AM, jagstang said:

I bought a new M11 in November when visiting Germany and realised after coming back to the UK that the rangefinder’s vertical alignment was off by a bit, which was slightly annoying but not the end of the world. For some reason the Leica store in London couldn’t fix it in situ (I’ve done it myself on my M3 and I know it takes 5 min, but I didn’t want to risk removing the red dot myself). They agreed to send it off to Wetzlar for repair and give me an M10 loaner as I needed a body for professional work.

Two and a half months later I got my M11 back, and the focus at infinity was perfect. But yesterday I was taking photos at close distances and I noticed the vertical alignment was off, making it very hard to focus especially when taking vertical photos and when you rely on leaves, textures or even someone’s eyes to focus. The strangest thing is that vertical alignment is still perfect at infinity, but the closer I focus, the more misaligned it gets. It’s only obviously apparent below ~2 meters.

I compared it side by side with my film bodies, one of them CLA’d by Cameraworks UK, and they focus consistently across all distances unlike my M11. I also tried focusing with three different lenses (35mm and 50mm, one of them also CLA’d recently) and I get the same problem so it’s definitely the body.

When I received the camera back, I didn’t think of checking focus at closer distances as I assumed that when the vertical alignment is off, it’s off evenly across all distances—at least this was the case the only time I ever had to adjust the rangefinder in 17 years I’ve been using Leicas. 

I’m starting to think that perhaps my body is defective? Or am I missing something? Is vertical misalignment more apparent at different distances or has the mechanism changed with digital bodies?

My film M’s never had this issue, so it’s really disappointing, especially this being my first digital body.

It happens on my M11 also. At minimum focus (0.7m) the vertical alignment is slightly off. At 1m or greater I don't notice it all. I suspect the only way to solve this is to replace the rangefinder mechanism as something in it is out of spec. It's on my todo list to send it in, but overall it's a very minor problem on my M11. Similar to you, I don't have this problem on other bodies.

[neonvoid]

Having the same issue, but the misalignment is more apparent the farther the focus point is, infinity being the worst.

[charlesphoto99]

6 hours ago, neonvoid said:

Having the same issue, but the misalignment is more apparent the farther the focus point is, infinity being the worst.

Having same issue with an M10M. Self adjusted once but checked with a nearer point - need to try it again and check with infinty. 

[mark1958a]

Which lenses are you using?  For Voigtlander -- for the 35mm 1.2 or 35mm 2.0--- in the specs says rangefinder is not accurate at minimal focus distance

[Warton]

7 minutes ago, mark1958a said:

Which lenses are you using?  For Voigtlander -- for the 35mm 1.2 or 35mm 2.0--- in the specs says rangefinder is not accurate at minimal focus distance

it's not the accuracy of the focus, it's the vertical mis-alignment of the focus plane.

Mine does that too. The focus plane is very slight hair-thin lower than the object when focusing on 70cm. It's hardly noticeable, Over 0.7, it's fine. I don't sweat on that anyway.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Warton

[mark1958a]

Got it

[28framelines]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:59 PM, Warton said:

it's not the accuracy of the focus, it's the vertical mis-alignment of the focus plane.

Mine does that too. The focus plane is very slight hair-thin lower than the object when focusing on 70cm. It's hardly noticeable, Over 0.7, it's fine. I don't sweat on that anyway.

I have this exact same issue on mine. Is this normal?

[neonvoid]

1 hour ago, 28framelines said:

I have this exact same issue on mine. Is this normal?

With the M11 this seems to be the norm for some reason. I replaced my first M11 because of this, but the replacement was pretty much the same.

Edited May 3, 2023 by neonvoid

[28framelines]

34 minutes ago, neonvoid said:

With the M11 this seems to be the norm for some reason. I replaced my first M11 because of this, but the replacement was pretty much the same.

Thanks! Maybe it’s just a strange phenomenon with the rangefinders they are making these days?

[neonvoid]

12 hours ago, 28framelines said:

Thanks! Maybe it’s just a strange phenomenon with the rangefinders they are making these days?

Who knows.

[hmzimelka]

13 hours ago, neonvoid said:

With the M11 this seems to be the norm for some reason. I replaced my first M11 because of this, but the replacement was pretty much the same.

I don't think this is normal at all. My M11's rangefinder doesn't have any issue with vertical alignment at any point in the focus range, even closer than 0.7 meters before it decouples. I'm fairly certain I can label myself as fussy when it comes to rangefinder alignment. I'm less phased with focus accuracy since that is an easy DIY fix for me, but vertical alignment issue would drive me nuts. 

I've tried four M11 cameras... rangefinder calibration was never an issue with any of them. 

[neonvoid]

5 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

I've tried four M11 cameras... rangefinder calibration was never an issue with any of them. 

In this case maybe it's just my bad luck.

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[DBounce]

I’ve just noticed this issue with my new Summilux 35mm FLE2 on the M11M. The vertical alignment seems slightly off. It’s not an issue with the Voigtlander lenses.