ymc226 Posted February 24, 2023 Share #1 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Not considering cost or cost efficiency, is anyone using one of the newer AIO film development machines. I am referring to either the Filmomat made in Germany by essentially one person and the Dev.a which is made in Italy by a electronics/mechanical design firm. I've used the Paterson tanks in 5 to 8 roll sizes, with multiple tanks going at the same time. I enjoy home development and now, with starting to use color C41 film, think these machines would be convenient if they work well and efficiently. My one comment about price is that they are similar in cost of a new M6, MP or MA. Edited February 24, 2023 by ymc226 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2023 Posted February 24, 2023 Hi ymc226, Take a look here Commercially available home all in one film development machines. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dpitt Posted February 24, 2023 Share #2 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) Wow, you could buy a lot of film for that! I am on the other end of the spectrum, keeping it simple. Just using a small Patterson tank. You will probably know this one already. I am now considering this to help with consistency: Cinestill They have other simple development tools that make it easier. Development tools Edited February 24, 2023 by dpitt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted February 24, 2023 Share #3 Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) All you need is a small tank and some jugs. I did once think about a jobo water bath unit for colour but you would still have to spend a lot of time messing around with the waterbaths. I have done C41 film developing the same way that I do b&w, just the temperature is higher. For colour print processing I used a drum on a Durst roller base, which I now use for processing sheet film. Edited February 24, 2023 by Pyrogallol Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 24, 2023 Share #4 Posted February 24, 2023 I use one of these for C41 film, saves messing around with jugs of hot or cold water to maintain temperatures. A bit extravagant and I suppose it would be easy enough to make something for less money that would work just as well in a similar way. It's convenient. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 28, 2023 Share #5 Posted February 28, 2023 Cinestill sell a sous vide for keeping the temperature accurate and I guess you could buy one cheaper from a cooks shop. Given you can do C41 at 86F a washing up bowl is sufficient for a water bath. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted February 28, 2023 Share #6 Posted February 28, 2023 First of all, I think these tools come too late. The film price is getting higher and higher. The available film types are getting fewer and fewer. The film sky is getting darker. Secondly, the fun of B&W development do not prefer automatic. The detail is art. Color film like automatic, For E6, C41, ECN2, consistency will be its strength. However, personally I think people should move to ECN2, not just much better color pallet, but also much cheaper. To me, Kodak Vision 3 50D is miles miles better than both Kodak Ektar 100 and all Portra. The problem is its less widely familiar Ramjet removal step. New comers are usually scared away for this step, though it is as simple as the first time into the darkroom. If these tools can change temperature from step to step, sometimes warmer, sometimes cooler, as what ECN2 requires (major different from E6 and C41 besides ramjet removal)m I can see it will be useful, if the price can be more friendly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpitt Posted March 1, 2023 Share #7 Posted March 1, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 13 hours ago, Einst_Stein said: First of all, I think these tools come too late. The film price is getting higher and higher. The available film types are getting fewer and fewer. The film sky is getting darker. Secondly, the fun of B&W development do not prefer automatic. The detail is art. Color film like automatic, For E6, C41, ECN2, consistency will be its strength. However, personally I think people should move to ECN2, not just much better color pallet, but also much cheaper. To me, Kodak Vision 3 50D is miles miles better than both Kodak Ektar 100 and all Portra. The problem is its less widely familiar Ramjet removal step. New comers are usually scared away for this step, though it is as simple as the first time into the darkroom. If these tools can change temperature from step to step, sometimes warmer, sometimes cooler, as what ECN2 requires (major different from E6 and C41 besides ramjet removal)m I can see it will be useful, if the price can be more friendly. If there is a film revival, and there seems to be one. It makes no sense that film production is going down. Yes, there will be less variety but it will survive. IMO. Maybe even the quality of photo lab development will become better also, because most of the film revival population is not going to develop their film themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted March 1, 2023 Share #8 Posted March 1, 2023 5 hours ago, dpitt said: If there is a film revival, and there seems to be one. It makes no sense that film production is going down. Yes, there will be less variety but it will survive. IMO. Maybe even the quality of photo lab development will become better also, because most of the film revival population is not going to develop their film themselves. I think it will survive for some time. There are lots of used darkroom equipments that are more than adequate. New comers need to offer something to make business sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzschuier Posted March 7, 2023 Share #9 Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) New Kickstarter from reveni labs (I use their exposure meter). To clunky for me. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattbechberger/dunkbot-affordable-automated-film-processor If I ever fullfill my dream and open a semi prof lab, it'll be a filmomat. Edited March 7, 2023 by franzschuier Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted March 7, 2023 Share #10 Posted March 7, 2023 4 hours ago, franzschuier said: New Kickstarter from reveni labs (I use their exposure meter). To clunky for me. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mattbechberger/dunkbot-affordable-automated-film-processor If I ever fullfill my dream and open a semi prof lab, it'll be a filmomat. I can’t tell the productivity of this machine,mI guess it is about 10~20min per batch （135x3 or 120x2), Adding preparation, loading the film, etc. would be about 30min per batch. If so, it can only process 16 batch per day, that is about 12000 rolls (135) or 8000 rolls (1200 per year. Pipelining the preparation and developing and post process steps may improve the productivity by 2X, but will need 3x workers. Sounds an easy way to get bankrupt! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzschuier Posted March 7, 2023 Share #11 Posted March 7, 2023 vor 6 Stunden schrieb Einst_Stein: I can’t tell the productivity of this machine,mI guess it is about 10~20min per batch （135x3 or 120x2), Adding preparation, loading the film, etc. would be about 30min per batch. If so, it can only process 16 batch per day, that is about 12000 rolls (135) or 8000 rolls (1200 per year. Pipelining the preparation and developing and post process steps may improve the productivity by 2X, but will need 3x workers. Sounds an easy way to get bankrupt! Yeah, that's why would only use a filmomat for business. The reveni seem a lot to work intensive for my taste. And it takes not enough film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted March 8, 2023 Author Share #12 Posted March 8, 2023 I did order a Filmomat; it should take 3 weeks to build and about half a week to ship to the USA. I am very excited to start using it and the only design issue for me that I can see from the video of the most recent iteration is that the cable is attached to the lid of the film canister and cannot be removed. That means more chance for inadvertent damage when I am in my dark closet loading film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted March 8, 2023 Share #13 Posted March 8, 2023 9 hours ago, franzschuier said: Yeah, that's why would only use a filmomat for business. The reveni seem a lot to work intensive for my taste. And it takes not enough film. I can’t see your point. They have the same essential problem: Productivity is too low to make sense for profitable business. At most they can be luxury advanced hobby lab. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted March 8, 2023 Share #14 Posted March 8, 2023 20 hours ago, Einst_Stein said: I can’t tell the productivity of this machine,mI guess it is about 10~20min per batch （135x3 or 120x2), Adding preparation, loading the film, etc. would be about 30min per batch. If so, it can only process 16 batch per day, that is about 12000 rolls (135) or 8000 rolls (1200 per year. Pipelining the preparation and developing and post process steps may improve the productivity by 2X, but will need 3x workers. Sounds an easy way to get bankrupt! It's advertised as for home use, where not many people will get through that quantity of film! CA$950 doesn't seem a bad price compared to alternatives for home use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 8, 2023 Share #15 Posted March 8, 2023 14 hours ago, franzschuier said: Yeah, that's why would only use a filmomat for business. The reveni seem a lot to work intensive for my taste. And it takes not enough film. If somebody's ambition is to set up a film processing business not everybody dreams of one day driving a Porsche, just making an average living and driving a Toyota. And if the price per roll was set right I don't see why a person wouldn't make some reasonable money with either machine in a work-from-home business. There is a small concern about cost effectiveness if only one roll was being processed and not a full load. But there is one massive reason not to go into business with them at all, the lack of fast turnaround manufacturer back-up if either of the machines goes wrong. That is the reason both are machines for amateurs who can can wait for a spare part to arrive. And I doubt a technician will be despatched to fix it so are either of the machines quickly user serviceable at all given the safety implications of needing electricity to work? There are small community darkrooms, amateurs processing at home, or one-man businesses who've never needed these sorts of machine to process E6, C41, or B&W, so the question is why they are needed now, where has the demand come from? I'll answer that, I don't think there was ever a demand for these new small to mid scale processing machines if all the pro's and con's are taken into account. It's simply that machines like the Filmomat and Reveni are easier to design, package, and manufacture today because of advances in hardware and micro processors. Just as today it's possible for somebody to set themselves up as a manufacturer of light meters which years ago would have been a major investment. For sure a new light meter fills a need because as we know they don't last forever in old cameras, but a deep tank lasts forever, so does a Paterson tank, and a Jobo rarely goes wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einst_Stein Posted March 8, 2023 Share #16 Posted March 8, 2023 9 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: It's advertised as for home use, where not many people will get through that quantity of film! CA$950 doesn't seem a bad price compared to alternatives for home use. Certainly feel free to be excited about it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeamosau Posted April 1 Share #17 Posted April 1 On 3/7/2023 at 7:03 PM, ymc226 said: I did order a Filmomat; it should take 3 weeks to build and about half a week to ship to the USA. I am very excited to start using it and the only design issue for me that I can see from the video of the most recent iteration is that the cable is attached to the lid of the film canister and cannot be removed. That means more chance for inadvertent damage when I am in my dark closet loading film. Hi! Interested to know how you have found using the Filmomat? Worth the purchase? Like the results? Been looking at one for myself. Thanks!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted April 1 Author Share #18 Posted April 1 (edited) Hello, the Filmomat works well but to get the most efficient use, there are several things that one can do. I don't shoot that much film but to maximize use of chemicals for one shot development (black and white + C41), it is best to develop either 8 rolls of 135 or 120 at a time. Requires doing 2 batches back to back and thus 2 sets of reels. That way, I don't reuse any chemicals. I buy chemicals packaged in small amounts which works out perfectly from Freestyle Photo. For color, it takes too long for the heater element to heat up the water bath from room temp so I fill a large 5 gallon bucket with sink water as close to the target temp so prep time is minimized. This water is used for both the water bath and for development. For B&W, in Los Angeles, I found that tap water from the cold tap during the summer is too high so I have kept gallon jugs of tap water in the fridge to get the water down to the required temp. The Filmomat does not have a cooling function. Edited April 1 by ymc226 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stray cat Posted April 2 Share #19 Posted April 2 I have no experience with it, but to me this looks very good and I'm considering buying one. The price is good, too. If anyone here has any experience with it, I'd be more than interested to hear your thoughts: https://darkroomhelper.pira.mx/product/darkroom-helper/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted April 2 Share #20 Posted April 2 Looks interesting Phil, be keen to hear your opinion after you try it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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