Leica Just Resurrected Its Legendary M6 Camera. Here’s Every Step It Takes to Make It.

[lmans]

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They 'shouldn't do this'.... as to me it is unethical, but it is  business. And since this issue isn't a true safety issue as it might be in cars/vehicles etc...it is still a recall that should occur to continue with quality control that Leica should have. But as stated, a recall would look bad on Leica as they should have picked up on this earlier.

It would be interesting to see 'dates' that this might cover and number of units produced that this might effect (all film cameras).  I haven't seen any data on 'number of Leica models produced by year or month, and not sure if that is available to us. It used to be, right? As old data showing serial numbers and model by year is around but only for older units. I  think they stopped giving out this information but not sure when.

Edited February 15, 2023 by lmans

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[earleygallery]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:42 PM, oldwino said:

Nope - they will continue to sell the camera, counting on most people shooting color and/or not noticing the scratches, and just deal with those who do notice it. 

A recall would be rather catastrophic for Leica's reputation.

Not at all!

The recall would only involve asking their dealers to return stock for checks/repairs. Anyone who has bought a camera will either have one that's fine, or one that isn't (and will presumably take it back to the dealer they purchased it from for an exchange/repair anyway).

The alternative is lots of new customers get faulty cameras. How isn't that potentially catastrophic for their reputation?

[250swb]

9 hours ago, earleygallery said:

Anyone who has bought a camera will either have one that's fine, or one that isn't (and will presumably take it back to the dealer they purchased it from for an exchange/repair anyway).

 

Except for the massive grey area were customers won't know their camera is faulty. There's far more people who've bought a recent Leica film camera that don't even know the Leica Forum exists, not all are camera geeks and know where to report faults. On top of that if scratches are a widespread problem and entire batches of cameras are faulty, caused by poor workmanship or components many owners won't know the camera is causing a scratch or have ever noticed a scratch on their prints, or noticed a faulty light meter that doesn't switch off, etc. It will be put done to 'one of those things', especially if the camera only gets an outing once or twice a year. And without a recall all these cameras stay in circulation until they're eventually bought when out of warranty and Leica's reputation takes another maybe even bigger hit a few years down the road.  

 

[69xchange]

54 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Except for the massive grey area were customers won't know their camera is faulty. There's far more people who've bought a recent Leica film camera that don't even know the Leica Forum exists, not all are camera geeks and know where to report faults. On top of that if scratches are a widespread problem and entire batches of cameras are faulty, caused by poor workmanship or components many owners won't know the camera is causing a scratch or have ever noticed a scratch on their prints, or noticed a faulty light meter that doesn't switch off, etc. It will be put done to 'one of those things', especially if the camera only gets an outing once or twice a year. And without a recall all these cameras stay in circulation until they're eventually bought when out of warranty and Leica's reputation takes another maybe even bigger hit a few years down the road.  

 

I totally agree, I wouldn’t have noticed my faulty light meter not turning off if I didn’t test every shutter speed. And the only reason why I knew it was faulty is because I compared it with my black paint MP which turns off right away after firing the shutter on EVERY shutter speed (also double checked the manuals too). My black paint MP late 2020 production isn’t perfect either, but more “acceptable”.. it has spacing issues/ overlapping frames on the negatives which I still haven’t sent to Leica for repair yet , but only happens once in awhile.

Edited February 16, 2023 by 69xchange
**Late production 2021, not 2020

[plaidshirts]

12 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

I totally agree, I wouldn’t have noticed my faulty light meter not turning off if I didn’t test every shutter speed. And the only reason why I knew it was faulty is because I compared it with my black paint MP which turns off right away after firing the shutter on EVERY shutter speed (also double checked the manuals too). My black paint MP late 2020 production isn’t perfect either, but more “acceptable”.. it has spacing issues/ overlapping frames on the negatives which I still haven’t sent to Leica for repair yet , but only happens once in awhile.

I don’t think I could accept it.  

My Canon F-1N has a spacing issue only when using 36 exp film. The gap is bigger between a couple of the frames.

I’m willing to live with this from a $200, 40-year-old camera since it still produces outstanding photos otherwise. But from a $5k+ one that’s only 3 years old? No…

[69xchange]

2 minutes ago, plaidshirts said:

I don’t think I could accept it.  

My Canon F-1N has a spacing issue only when using 36 exp film. The gap is bigger between a couple of the frames.

I’m willing to live with this from a $200, 40-year-old camera since it still produces outstanding photos otherwise. But from a $5k+ one that’s only 3 years old? No…

I bought my black paint MP from a Canadian camera store called “TheCameraStore”, located in Alberta. The sales guy kept saying that “Leica doesn’t make faulty cameras” and it was 100% “user error”. Emails were fired back and forth for a week with phone calls but they denied my exchange/refund. I even called my credit card company but it was a “pre-order” and I had to pay up front so 6 months later when I received my BP MP, it was too late for credit card company to do anything. I even emailed the managers of the store and they also denied a refund/exchange. So i just accepted it and vowed to never buy from TheCameraStore again. 

[plaidshirts]

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2 minutes ago, 69xchange said:

I bought my black paint MP from a Canadian camera store called “TheCameraStore”, located in Alberta. The sales guy kept saying that “Leica doesn’t make faulty cameras” and it was 100% “user error”. Emails were fired back and forth for a week with phone calls but they denied my exchange/refund. I even called my credit card company but it was a “pre-order” and I had to pay up front so 6 months later when I received my BP MP, it was too late for credit card company to do anything. I even emailed the managers of the store and they also denied a refund/exchange. So i just accepted it and vowed to never buy from TheCameraStore again. 

I’m not sure how a film spacing issue can be from user error. As long as it’s loaded properly, space between frames should be uniform, period. Sounds like a(nother) Leica issue to me. 

BTW I’ve detected zero spacing issues on my M2, M3 and M4 which are 50-60 years old (so I know Leica does know how). Any problems of that sort would be obvious to me as I scan whole rolls of film through a Nikon Coolscan. 

[Ouroboros]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:42 PM, oldwino said:

Nope - they will continue to sell the camera, counting on most people shooting color and/or not noticing the scratches, and just deal with those who do notice it. 

A recall would be rather catastrophic for Leica's reputation.

Recalls have never been catastrophic for other brands, eg Nikon, for one, who recalled the D810 at least twice and also had to make a sharp exit from production of the D600 after a matter of weeks to replace it with the 'improved' D610 which was recalled.....etc, etc. 

If anything, a recall policy as an acknowledgement by Leica that they have f@cked up might inject a little customer confidence into their rapidly increasing reputation for non-existent QC and sub-standard workmanship. There is enough actual and anecdotal evidence to suggest it's time Leica, in it's current incarnation and attitude toward QC, grew up.

The final straw for me is my son's experience of trying three new M-A's to have one that hadn't been apparently assembled by a chimpanzee with a lump hammer, along with other widely reported issues such as the steel rim reissue disintegrating diaphragm farce, scratched films and new lenses that inexplicably disappear from dealer's shelves for months, etc . 

I'm done with buying anything else new from Leica until they sort their shit out. 

[Sensorix]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb plaidshirts:

My Canon F-1N

pretty cool camera next to my M-A 😬😇

 

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[StephenH]

10 hours ago, Sensorix said:

pretty cool camera next to my M-A 😬😇

 

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Beautiful Camera.  I have one with the AE finder which doesn't look nearly as good.  My dad worked for Canon in the 80's when this camera came out, and I'd like to think I was one of the first to use it.  The actual name of the camera is Canon NEW F-1.  A Canon F-1N was an update on the original which included a shorter throw advance with a plastic tip.

[Matlock]

9 hours ago, StephenH said:

Beautiful Camera.  I have one with the AE finder which doesn't look nearly as good.  My dad worked for Canon in the 80's when this camera came out, and I'd like to think I was one of the first to use it.  The actual name of the camera is Canon NEW F-1.  A Canon F-1N was an update on the original which included a shorter throw advance with a plastic tip.

I have two. One that has been well used but used well so is in perfect condition with just a little brassing, it gets quite a lot of use. The other is a non working camera which was shipped from Canon in that condition (so much for only Leica having QC issues, apparently they had an issue with a few at the time) I got it for a song and it makes a great display as it is absolutely mint.

[Topsy]

32 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I have two. One that has been well used but used well so is in perfect condition with just a little brassing, it gets quite a lot of use. The other is a non working camera which was shipped from Canon in that condition (so much for only Leica having QC issues, apparently they had an issue with a few at the time) I got it for a song and it makes a great display as it is absolutely mint.

I had 3 back in the film only days all 3 bought new by me. I still have the first one I bought (somewhat less than pristine cosmetically but working perfectly) it too has the AE Finder I also have the Motordrive for it and a set of lenses from 24 to 300 all primes. Sadly though I very rarely use it nor do I use my MP, M2 or M4-P preferring these days to use my M9s for "35mm format" and Bronica SQ-Ais for my film shooting.

[Topsy]

1 hour ago, Topsy said:

I had 3 back in the film only days all 3 bought new by me. I still have the first one I bought (somewhat less than pristine cosmetically but working perfectly) it too has the AE Finder I also have the Motordrive for it and a set of lenses from 24 to 300 all primes. Sadly though I very rarely use it nor do I use my MP, M2 or M4-P preferring these days to use my M9s for "35mm format" and Bronica SQ-Ais for my film shooting.

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[Sensorix]

... drifting to a Canon Thread a little 🤗

[StephenH]

24 minutes ago, Sensorix said:

... drifting to a Canon Thread a little 🤗

One last thing--the New F-1 with the standard prism was perfectly capable of operating in aperture priority automatic mode--you just wouldn't know what shutter speed the camera selected.  

[Sensorix]

vor 7 Minuten schrieb StephenH:

One last thing--the New F-1 with the standard prism was perfectly capable of operating in aperture priority automatic mode--you just wouldn't know what shutter speed the camera selected.  

I know! Thank you. 

[Topsy]

2 hours ago, Sensorix said:

... drifting to a Canon Thread a little 🤗

Yes, sorry. Maybe some M6 porn to bring it back on track (old M6 don't have a new one).

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[Matlock]

21 minutes ago, Topsy said:

Yes, sorry. Maybe some M6 porn to bring it back on track (old M6 don't have a new one).

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And more.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ktmrider2]

I would be curious about sales of the new M6 compared to classic versions (not just M6 but M2, M3, M4 etc), especially now that Leica seems to have forgotten how to make cameras without scratching film.  I have been thinking about a new black paint MP but it seems to have a quality control problem as well.

[Huss]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I would be curious about sales of the new M6 compared to classic versions (not just M6 but M2, M3, M4 etc), especially now that Leica seems to have forgotten how to make cameras without scratching film.  I have been thinking about a new black paint MP but it seems to have a quality control problem as well.

Well, there is a big waiting list for them.  Take that for what you will.