Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 "Speed Panchro II" for Leica M

[Almizilero]

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Final entry in the delivery story: LLL fully refunded customs and taxes! So they play a game of luck trying to avoid taxes, but if that fails they live up to their word don't let customers hanging. 👍 I'm quite happy with that kind of service!

Now I can't wait to get home and test out the lens! Lets hope customs put everything back where it belongs.

[catacore]

2 hours ago, Almizilero said:

Final entry in the delivery story: LLL fully refunded customs and taxes! So they play a game of luck trying to avoid taxes, but if that fails they live up to their word don't let customers hanging. 👍 I'm quite happy with that kind of service!

Now I can't wait to get home and test out the lens! Lets hope customs put everything back where it belongs.

I'm glad to hear you got refunded by LLL, hopefully they will do this for all clients that have ordered their lenses, at least until they removed "taxes included" from their products webpages. And this is one important point (at least for their EU clients) - they have removed that "taxes included" claim. That means a price increase with +/- 20% for all EU clients.

 

Now @Almizilero, you have to dispell the @tsleica info by telling us your lens is as promised by LLL 😉

 

As for me, no news regarding shipping my lens....

Edited March 30, 2023 by catacore

[hdmesa]

9 hours ago, tsleica said:

...According to him..the 2 are not comparable..

How though? Sharpness/IQ? Rendering of out of focus areas wide open?

Hopefully they will get a production copy and review the lens against their originals. We need people with that kind of experience reviewing it.

[Huss]

19 hours ago, tsleica said:

.in em out of frustration..and the other..has no mercy for their criticism of LLL's policies and QC control.

I was going to buy the LLL/Cooke Panchro..but the dealer told me..

Dont buy right now..not yet..until the bugs are worked out in a few months.

..

Sounds like the Leica 35 FLE II and new Leica 35 SR.

[Almizilero]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

How though? Sharpness/IQ? Rendering of out of focus areas wide open?

Hopefully they will get a production copy and review the lens against their originals. We need people with that kind of experience reviewing it.

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb catacore:

I'm glad to hear you got refunded by LLL, hopefully they will do this for all clients that have ordered their lenses, at least until they removed "taxes included" from their products webpages. And this is one important point (at least for their EU clients) - they have removed that "taxes included" claim. That means a price increase with +/- 20% for all EU clients.

 

Now @Almizilero, you have to dispell the @tsleica info by telling us your lens is as promised by LLL 😉

 

As for me, no news regarding shipping my lens....

 

Well, not sure if I can dispell anything and I surely can't compare it to the original. But here are my first impressions:

The build quality of the lens is top notch! It has a beautiful finish that work perfectly well with the silver M10. I would have gone for the black finish if it had been available, but now I'm quite happy with the way it is. It kinda adds to the vintage feel that this lens just oozes. (Vintage is the word that sums up this lens pretty well...)

I love the way it handles! I only have two M lenses, the 50 Summicron V5 and the Voigtländer 28 Ultron. The Panchro immediately took the top spot in handling and "feel". The focus is just buttery smooth with just the right amount of resistance. I just think that the focus throw is a bit long. But it works well with the "bunny ears". My favourite part is the aperture ring. I usually don't fuss about these things, but this one has the best clicking sound ever! It doesn't actually click, it has a kind of rich, deep sound to it. Just nice. It mounts nice and easy with not to much or to little resistance.

I can't really say much about image quality yet. I could only do a short walk after work before it started pouring again. But from the first samples, I think I got what I expected. The lens just has the certain look that I saw in the reviews and sample images. A vintage look (there is that word again). It puts a glow in the images by dissolving the contrast edges. I asked at the beginning of the thread if a Pro Mist filter wouldn't give similar results, but no, it's a different kind of glow. The images look vintage with less contrast and blurry edges. But in a good way.

As far as I can tell, the lens is sharp (enough). I think one reviewer said it's as sharp as the Summicron V5 and that didn't seem likely to me. Now I can already tell it (mine) isn't. But it has a good sharpness that fits the overall look. Only problem I have is that the "glow" also occurs on objects that are in focus, when they have contrasty edges. The closer focus is to infinity, the more pronounced it is.

So yeah, overall the first impressions make me quite happy. I might put it up against the V5 tomorrow and do some tests for de-centering and infinity focus. But so far, there were no red flags. I can already tell that this isn't going to replace the Summicron, the Panchro is to much of a special pupose lens. But it's a great lens for that cinematic, vintage look.

 

[tsleica]

Great to hear you got a good lens! And they refunded customs too.

Looking forward to your experience w/it.

[hdmesa]

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15 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

 

 

Well, not sure if I can dispell anything and I surely can't compare it to the original. But here are my first impressions:

The build quality of the lens is top notch! It has a beautiful finish that work perfectly well with the silver M10. I would have gone for the black finish if it had been available, but now I'm quite happy with the way it is. It kinda adds to the vintage feel that this lens just oozes. (Vintage is the word that sums up this lens pretty well...)

I love the way it handles! I only have two M lenses, the 50 Summicron V5 and the Voigtländer 28 Ultron. The Panchro immediately took the top spot in handling and "feel". The focus is just buttery smooth with just the right amount of resistance. I just think that the focus throw is a bit long. But it works well with the "bunny ears". My favourite part is the aperture ring. I usually don't fuss about these things, but this one has the best clicking sound ever! It doesn't actually click, it has a kind of rich, deep sound to it. Just nice. It mounts nice and easy with not to much or to little resistance.

I can't really say much about image quality yet. I could only do a short walk after work before it started pouring again. But from the first samples, I think I got what I expected. The lens just has the certain look that I saw in the reviews and sample images. A vintage look (there is that word again). It puts a glow in the images by dissolving the contrast edges. I asked at the beginning of the thread if a Pro Mist filter wouldn't give similar results, but no, it's a different kind of glow. The images look vintage with less contrast and blurry edges. But in a good way.

As far as I can tell, the lens is sharp (enough). I think one reviewer said it's as sharp as the Summicron V5 and that didn't seem likely to me. Now I can already tell it (mine) isn't. But it has a good sharpness that fits the overall look. Only problem I have is that the "glow" also occurs on objects that are in focus, when they have contrasty edges. The closer focus is to infinity, the more pronounced it is.

So yeah, overall the first impressions make me quite happy. I might put it up against the V5 tomorrow and do some tests for de-centering and infinity focus. But so far, there were no red flags. I can already tell that this isn't going to replace the Summicron, the Panchro is to much of a special pupose lens. But it's a great lens for that cinematic, vintage look.

 

Thanks for the first impressions. I was the one that said the prototype I tested matched the 50 Cron. It could be the change in coatings that LLL said they would make is at work here. They said the final coatings would be more true to the original, and I think the prototype coatings may have been producing higher contrast. "Apparent sharpness" will be affected by a coating change or any time there is a reduction of flare resistance. I also didn't see much glow at all wide open with the prototype, much less glow that increased with distance. The production version sounds like it will be a much more interesting lens.

[pippy]

24 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

...the lens...has a good sharpness that fits the overall look. Only problem I have is that the "glow" also occurs on objects that are in focus, when they have contrasty edges. The closer focus is to infinity, the more pronounced it is...

Thank you, Almizilero, for the 'First Impressions' report. Very interesting.

Might I ask whether the "glow" to which you refer is only present in the f2.0 / f2.8 (-ish) range after which time it reduces / disappears? I'm wondering if the SP II behaves in a fashion similar to the v1/v2 35mm Summilux where the 'glow' is really only apparent at the very wide-end of the aperture scale.

Thanks in advance!

Philip.

[Almizilero]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb hdmesa:

Thanks for the first impressions. I was the one that said the prototype I tested matched the 50 Cron. It could be the change in coatings that LLL said they would make is at work here. They said the final coatings would be more true to the original, and I think the prototype coatings may have been producing higher contrast. "Apparent sharpness" will be affected by a coating change or any time there is a reduction of flare resistance. I also didn't see much glow at all wide open with the prototype, much less glow that increased with distance. The production version sounds like it will be a much more interesting lens.

It's a bit hard to describe, especially as a non-native speaker. But comparing my first images with your sample shots, I'd say there is less contrast. And depending on the lighting situation and the background, the light seems to eat into foreground elements. I also think it is not very forgiving when the focus isn't perfect. When it's a bit off, the contrast edges start to dissolve real quick. But yeah, so far it's a really interesting lens.

Pic 1: 100% crop, focus was on the sign but not perfect, see how the figures already have a slight glow. Light from the background looks like it eats away at the sign.

Pic 2: 50% crop. Light at the top produces more glow, in the shadows there is less contrast and has more aparent sharpness.

Pic 3: Just all the nice little "imperfections" of the lens at once: Nicely blurred background, crazy CA, glow around the contrast edges (look at those out of focus white blossoms).

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[Almizilero]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb pippy:

Thank you, Almizilero, for the 'First Impressions' report. Very interesting.

Might I ask whether the "glow" to which you refer is only present in the f2.0 / f2.8 (-ish) range after which time it reduces / disappears? I'm wondering if the SP II behaves in a fashion similar to the v1/v2 35mm Summilux where the 'glow' is really only apparent at the very wide-end of the aperture scale.

Thanks in advance!

Philip.

Hi, today I only used it at max aperture. Tomorrow I can look into that.

[pippy]

10 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

Hi, today I only used it at max aperture. Tomorrow I can look into that.

Thanks. I hope the weather improves for you!

Philip.

[hdmesa]

12 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

It's a bit hard to describe, especially as a non-native speaker. But comparing my first images with your sample shots, I'd say there is less contrast. And depending on the lighting situation and the background, the light seems to eat into foreground elements. I also think it is not very forgiving when the focus isn't perfect. When it's a bit off, the contrast edges start to dissolve real quick. But yeah, so far it's a really interesting lens.

Pic 1: 100% crop, focus was on the sign but not perfect, see how the figures already have a slight glow. Light from the background looks like it eats away at the sign.

Pic 2: 50% crop. Light at the top produces more glow, in the shadows there is less contrast and has more aparent sharpness.

Pic 3: Just all the nice little "imperfections" of the lens at once: Nicely blurred background, crazy CA, glow around the contrast edges (look at those out of focus white blossoms).

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Wow, that isn't even the same lens! I have to say I like this glow and character much more than the prototype I used. This could be the 50mm "Holy Grail" of character that everyone wants, which is a 50mm lens that renders exactly like the 35 Lux v2 (or Steel Rim).

[tsleica]

Thats a very niice lens! 

I'll probably end up getting it.

[catacore]

Thanks @Almizilero for your first impressions and images. I was wondering if you got the "full package" from LLL (including the both lens caps and hood), as I got, last night, an email from David @ LLL stating they are not going to provide the BACK lens cap anymore (and asking if there is anyone who would like to cancel their order for this reason). Also he was saying they have updated the product sheet to include this info, but the Pachro listing does not list the FRONT cap as part of the package. 

Now, giving the fact that what David is saying would be correct "There was an error in the product description. It initially states that it includes both Back/Front Lens Caps. However, after confirming with the factory, the purchase only includes the front lens cap."  I can't help but ask myself why can't they add, for free, a back lens cap since they also sell those as spare parts (so they must have plenty of them). I have never ever heard about any lens manufacturer on Earth that ships a brand new lens without both lens caps. This just sound so cheap to me. I was wondering if there are some other guys around here who have pre-ordered the lens and got this same message from David Chen (from Light Lens Lab North America). My suspicion now is that LLL does not want to reimburse the (whatever) "tax" (was "included" in their listing) for customers that would have to pay it, so they want those to cancel their orders (after the @Almizilero experience, where LLL ended up selling the lens for about 800-200=600 USD).

As for me, after looking at @Almizilero pictures, I can say I much prefer the images coming from the prototype. There is "too much character" on the final product images to my taste.

[Pierre68]

David from LLL said it was the front cap that all be missing, after initially saying it was the rear cap.

Sound stupid but frankly who cares. Any generic lens cap with the correct diameter will do the job.

 

[catacore]

1 hour ago, Pierre68 said:

David from LLL said it was the front cap that all be missing, after initially saying it was the rear cap.

Sound stupid but frankly who cares. Any generic lens cap with the correct diameter will do the job.

 

Well, I think there is something "fishy" in this. The way I interpret his email was "we're not inlcuding the back lens cap with your lens anymore, do you wish to cancel your order?". While they are also selling back lens caps for 20 USD - that's 1/40th of the lens price.

The factory confirmed there will only be front lens caps for this lens - this is, I guess, unheard off in the lens business, worldwide...

[NigelG]

I got 2 emails - the first saying there was no back cap supplied (which I found a bit odd) but then a second correcting the first one and confirming that no front cap was supplied.

Less odd - but I can’t recall ever buying a lens in the last xx years that didn’t come from the factory with both (though tbh a MS Optical lens I ordered from Japan through JCH came with a plastic slip-on front cap that was so flimsy it split in half when I took it off the first time…)

[catacore]

7 minutes ago, NigelG said:

I got 2 emails - the first saying there was no back cap supplied (which I found a bit odd) but then a second correcting the first one and confirming that no front cap was supplied.

Less odd - but I can’t recall ever buying a lens in the last xx years that didn’t come from the factory with both (though tbh a MS Optical lens I ordered from Japan through JCH came with a plastic slip-on front cap that was so flimsy it split in half when I took it off the first time…)

Yes, I found the second mail just now, in the spam folder. "Excellent" job done by yahoo spam filters...

[hdmesa]

No front cap is probably because up to now they’ve only done the really nice metal lens caps. So either a metal cap wouldn’t work with this design or they are considering the included metal hood to be the front end protection. 

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[Almizilero]

Am 31.3.2023 um 09:42 schrieb catacore:

Thanks @Almizilero for your first impressions and images. I was wondering if you got the "full package" from LLL (including the both lens caps and hood), as I got, last night, an email from David @ LLL stating they are not going to provide the BACK lens cap anymore (and asking if there is anyone who would like to cancel their order for this reason). Also he was saying they have updated the product sheet to include this info, but the Pachro listing does not list the FRONT cap as part of the package. 

Now, giving the fact that what David is saying would be correct "There was an error in the product description. It initially states that it includes both Back/Front Lens Caps. However, after confirming with the factory, the purchase only includes the front lens cap."  I can't help but ask myself why can't they add, for free, a back lens cap since they also sell those as spare parts (so they must have plenty of them). I have never ever heard about any lens manufacturer on Earth that ships a brand new lens without both lens caps. This just sound so cheap to me. I was wondering if there are some other guys around here who have pre-ordered the lens and got this same message from David Chen (from Light Lens Lab North America). My suspicion now is that LLL does not want to reimburse the (whatever) "tax" (was "included" in their listing) for customers that would have to pay it, so they want those to cancel their orders (after the @Almizilero experience, where LLL ended up selling the lens for about 800-200=600 USD).

As for me, after looking at @Almizilero pictures, I can say I much prefer the images coming from the prototype. There is "too much character" on the final product images to my taste.

Now that you mention it, I didn't get a front cap, didn't even notice that. But the hood and a really nice metal back cap were included.

Sorry for not posting more sample pictures, but after 3 years of avoiding it, covid finally caught up with me. So it's stay at home for the weekend