Light Lens Lab 50mm f/2 "Speed Panchro II" for Leica M

[catacore]

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18 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

Mine is on the way! Should arrive on Wednesday. Can't wait to test this out. Hopefully I can use it during a portrait shoot on Friday.

You mean a loaned lens, or has LLL start shipping the first batch of SPII?

[Almizilero]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb catacore:

You mean a loaned lens, or has LLL start shipping the first batch of SPII?

They started shipping. Ordered mine pretty soon after I got the notification email that preorders have started.

[catacore]

2 minutes ago, Almizilero said:

They started shipping. Ordered mine pretty soon after I got the notification email that preorders have started.

I have ordered within 24hrs after I received their email (my order number is 1172). 

Please let us know if you will get to pay any additional (import) taxes (I see you are from Germany), as I am concerned that, whatever "tax included" was mentioned on their website, we'll still be subject to taxes here, in Europe.

[NigelG]

4 hours ago, Almizilero said:

They started shipping. Ordered mine pretty soon after I got the notification email that preorders have started.

 

4 hours ago, catacore said:

I have ordered within 24hrs after I received their email (my order number is 1172). 

Please let us know if you will get to pay any additional (import) taxes (I see you are from Germany), as I am concerned that, whatever "tax included" was mentioned on their website, we'll still be subject to taxes here, in Europe.

I’m order # 1180 - were you a long way ahead of that @Almizilero??

[Huss]

On 3/21/2023 at 1:10 AM, jonnyboy said:

only chrome versions in pre order? what a bugger!

Yup, I'm holding out for the black version.  The chrome to me looks like a piece of plumbing pipe.

[Almizilero]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb NigelG:

 

I’m order # 1180 - were you a long way ahead of that @Almizilero??

Nope, not far ahead. #1114 
Got the shipping notice on Sunday and tracking says it's been posted Saturday.

[Almizilero]

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Am 26.3.2023 um 19:38 schrieb catacore:

I have ordered within 24hrs after I received their email (my order number is 1172). 

Please let us know if you will get to pay any additional (import) taxes (I see you are from Germany), as I am concerned that, whatever "tax included" was mentioned on their website, we'll still be subject to taxes here, in Europe.

I'll find out soon. I asked about that before ordering and they said there won't be any additional fees. At the moment, tracking says it's "pending release by government agency", which is probably customs, so fingers crossed ... With this, I doubt it'll be delivered tomorrow, but as long as that's the only downside and the fees are actually paid by LLL up front, I'll be happy to wait a little longer!

[hdmesa]

On 3/26/2023 at 7:16 PM, Huss said:

Yup, I'm holding out for the black version.  The chrome to me looks like a piece of plumbing pipe.

I cancelled my order for silver and got on the list for the black one, too. I was outside shooting with my silver 50 Cron the other day and was reminded how much I dislike having my retinas burned out by the sun reflecting off the barrel.

[tsleica]

Watch out..

As the 1st batch of LLL lenses can be problematic until all the bugs are worked out of them...esp QC.

Also..

I've been told..

These are no where near the same image quality of the originals.

But this is what I've been told from a source I respect.

I'm going to hold off for now..until I know more..

[Almizilero]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Almizilero:

I'll find out soon. I asked about that before ordering and they said there won't be any additional fees. At the moment, tracking says it's "pending release by government agency", which is probably customs, so fingers crossed ... With this, I doubt it'll be delivered tomorrow, but as long as that's the only downside and the fees are actually paid by LLL up front, I'll be happy to wait a little longer!

Sooo, live update. The packet got opened during a random customs sample check (just my luck 🥺). From what UPS said, it has a declared value of $15 and customs think that can't be right (surprise surprise 🧐). So now I have to provide prove of payment from my end and since I'm not going to cheat I'll provide the original paypal bill. That means I'm probably looking at 200+ Euros of taxes and customs fees. Plus whatever UPS charges for handling it. 

I'll discuss this with LLL and hope we come to an agreement. They already took down the "Taxes included" under the price on their website, but I got a screenshot of the chat where they told me I wouldn't have to deal with any import fees, so they don't get of the hook that easy

[catacore]

1 hour ago, Almizilero said:

Sooo, live update. The packet got opened during a random customs sample check (just my luck 🥺). From what UPS said, it has a declared value of $15 and customs think that can't be right (surprise surprise 🧐). So now I have to provide prove of payment from my end and since I'm not going to cheat I'll provide the original paypal bill. That means I'm probably looking at 200+ Euros of taxes and customs fees. Plus whatever UPS charges for handling it. 

I'll discuss this with LLL and hope we come to an agreement. They already took down the "Taxes included" under the price on their website, but I got a screenshot of the chat where they told me I wouldn't have to deal with any import fees, so they don't get of the hook that easy

Well, that's bad news. But sort of expected. I do have an LLL email reply from a guy named David Yu-Heng Chen where he assured me that "taxes are included with the purchase". 

Still no news about my lens being shipped....

L.E. I got recently a package from UK with UPS and I had to provide them with some documents and declaration about the package content. I expect the same with this package coming from China.

Edited March 29, 2023 by catacore

[catacore]

16 hours ago, tsleica said:

Watch out..

As the 1st batch of LLL lenses can be problematic until all the bugs are worked out of them...esp QC.

Also..

I've been told..

These are no where near the same image quality of the originals.

But this is what I've been told from a source I respect.

I'm going to hold off for now..until I know more..

Regading my "bold": you mean Cooke original, or LLL prototype. For me, if the lens will provide the image quality of the prototype, I would be more than happy.

[Almizilero]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Almizilero:

Sooo, live update. The packet got opened during a random customs sample check (just my luck 🥺). From what UPS said, it has a declared value of $15 and customs think that can't be right (surprise surprise 🧐). So now I have to provide prove of payment from my end and since I'm not going to cheat I'll provide the original paypal bill. That means I'm probably looking at 200+ Euros of taxes and customs fees. Plus whatever UPS charges for handling it. 

I'll discuss this with LLL and hope we come to an agreement. They already took down the "Taxes included" under the price on their website, but I got a screenshot of the chat where they told me I wouldn't have to deal with any import fees, so they don't get of the hook that easy

Next update: Package is on it's way again, with a taxes/customs of 207 Euros to be paid upon delivery.

I asked LLL for a refund, now waiting for a reaction.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Almizilero

[hdmesa]

On 3/28/2023 at 1:02 PM, tsleica said:

Watch out..

As the 1st batch of LLL lenses can be problematic until all the bugs are worked out of them...esp QC.

Also..

I've been told..

These are no where near the same image quality of the originals.

But this is what I've been told from a source I respect.

I'm going to hold off for now..until I know more..

LLL are extremely skilled at recreating lenses exactly down to the original glass types. Use the comparisons of the LLL 35 8-element with the original as a reference point – identical, and they didn't need multiple versions to work that out. That said, later versions of the 8-Element were refined over time, the same way other manufacturers iterate coatings or other tweaks they never document.

What LLL does have issues with to this day is delivering 8-Element copies that are perfectly centered and are aligned with the rangefinder at infinity. The Elcan copy I owned was far better in both regards.

It should be noted that examples up to now have been made with a protype and are not the final IQ. Still, the SPII prototype I tested was perfectly centered and the rangefinder alignment at infinity was spot-on. IQ was on par with the 50 Cron v5. Also note that there were/are several versions and copies of the prototypes being circulated – several early black ones and many more production quality silver ones specifically distributed to certain photographers in the Asian markets. Most of the reviews we have seen so far are from the early black prototypes.

Edited March 29, 2023 by hdmesa

[tsleica]

LLL has about a 50% defect rate..and thats on lenses the dealer receives that were supposed to be QC-ed at factory.

..these defects include.. minor cosmetic defects..to totally bum lenses.. dealers know this all too well..

Anyone ordering from a dealer that is unwilling to go thru the lens w/fine tooth comb and test on camera  body...may be in for a nasty surprise.

Just the fact that they listed the lens for customs at $15 bux value..should tell you something...lol..

BTW..I own the Elcan as well as the 8E and luv em..

But the 2 separate dealers I bought them from..said the exact same thing..about LLL.

1 dealer quit sellin em out of frustration..and the other..has no mercy for their criticism of LLL's policies and QC control.

I was going to buy the LLL/Cooke Panchro..but the dealer told me..

Dont buy right now..not yet..until the bugs are worked out in a few months.

And that this repro lens... is nothing like the original either..

Edited March 29, 2023 by tsleica

[hdmesa]

37 minutes ago, tsleica said:

LLL has about a 50% defect rate..and thats on lenses the dealer receives that were supposed to be QC-ed at factory.

..these defects include.. minor cosmetic defects..to totally bum lenses.. dealers know this all too well..

Anyone ordering from a dealer that is unwilling to go thru the lens w/fine tooth comb and test on camera  body...may be in for a nasty surprise.

Just the fact that they listed the lens for customs at $15 bux value..should tell you something...lol..

BTW..I own the Elcan as well as the 8E and luv em..

But the 2 separate dealers I bought them from..said the exact same thing..about LLL.

1 dealer quit sellin em out of frustration..and the other..has no mercy for their criticism of LLL's policies and QC control.

I was going to buy the LLL/Cooke Panchro..but the dealer told me..

Dont buy right now..not yet..until the bugs are worked out in a few months.

And that this repro lens... is nothing like the original either..

Yes, I gave up on finding a properly manufactured 8 Element and my 50 Elcan was nearly impossible to unmount from the camera (a characteristic of the original Elcan that they should have corrected when producing the replica).

We need to see the final production model of the LLL SPII compared with an original before saying it's nothing like the original SPII. You also need to prove that statement with samples, otherwise it's merely anecdotal.

[Almizilero]

vor 53 Minuten schrieb tsleica:

Just the fact that they listed the lens for customs at $15 bux value..should tell you something...lol..

 

 While your other criticism have me worried a bit (even if it's just hearsay), this is just foolish. There has never been anything worth more than $50 sent from China with the actual value put in the documentation. Sellers always put in these ridiculously low prices in hope to slip past customs and spare their customers the import fees.

Regarding comparison with the original, one can only hope that someone will do this someday. Until then, I'll just have to go with if I like the look of the lens or not. And going by all the samples I've seen from people who actually used the lens/prototypes, I like the look quite a lot. That's why I orderd. Well, tomorrow I'll see for myself.

[tsleica]

Quote

We need to see the final production model of the LLL SPII compared with an original before saying it's nothing like the original SPII. You also need to prove that statement with samples, otherwise it's merely anecdotal.

This comes from someone who owns more than 1 example of the original Cooke..

And has tested the LLL reproduction.

But until you have the original and repro in your hands..it doesnt really matter...what anyone says..or samples either..

But I'm not here to bash LLL..

Just sharing info.. that you can use..or not use..

I could have remained silent..and just let the chips fall where they may..and let the buyer QC their lenses and ship them back and forth.

But that said..

My Elcan and 8E came in perfect.

And it was no accident..

Why..because I had dealers that were honest and wanted to get good lenses to me and were willing to weed out the crappy ones.

fyi...The original 8E's were basically the same as Voightlander lenses photographically until months went by..and they were tweaked over time to look better.. changing the coatings and more..

I would wait on this new lens for awhile before purchase..until they are really ready for primetime in good form or close..so you wiill be satisfied.

Edited March 29, 2023 by tsleica

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, tsleica said:

This comes from someone who owns more than 1 example of the original Cooke..

And has tested the LLL reproduction.

But until you have the original and repro in your hands..it doesnt really matter...what anyone says..or samples either..

But I'm not here to bash LLL..

Just sharing info.. that you can use..or not use..

I could have remained silent..and just let the chips fall where they may..and let the buyer QC their lenses and ship them back and forth.

But that said..

My Elcan and 8E came in perfect.

And it was no accident..

Why..because I had dealers that were honest and wanted to get good lenses to me and were willing to weed out the crappy ones.

fyi...The original 8E's were basically the same as Voightlander lenses photographically until months went by..and they were tweaked over time to look better.. changing the coatings and more..

I would wait on this new lens for awhile before purchase..until they are really ready for primetime in good form or close..so you wiill be satisfied.

I don't think you're bashing at all. The QC by LLL is pretty bad, so that's a truth.

What's not a truth is saying the SPII is nothing like the originals when all your friend tested was an early prototype and just one copy of the many floating around. Since we both agree that LLL QC is often lacking, the prototype he was testing could have had IQ issues. Did your friend show you side-by-side images taken with both? Did you see a difference?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tsleica]

This is a very trustworthy source..

Someone in the biz..

He has original Cooke lenses..(not the LLLprototype)..he has the real deal Cooke lenses.

The ones the cinema guys go crazy for..

And he has tested the recent LLL reproduction lens...against it..

According to him..the 2 are not comparable..

As to myself..it doesnt matter..

If the LLL works it works..

If you want the original..then go for that..