Leica 35/2 and 50/2 SL ASPH lenses?

[Knipsknecht]

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vor 17 Minuten schrieb bandrews:

You say that as though Leica hasn't been collaborating with Panasonic (and countless other brand partnerships) for the last 20 years. Nobody is taking away the APO lenses but Leica need sales and their last attempt at building a camera system (TL APSC) fell flat. Leica will always be expensive but it needs to be more than just a one trick pony (M). The company can still broaden its appeal and access without losing what makes it desirable but unless Leica starts selling more lenses under their own brand it will be Sigma and Panasonic making the most from this alliance

Absolutely right! But then I would suggest that Leica should develop something new - maybe in cooperation with Panasonic and/or Sigma - something original Leica. Not just two rebadged, slightly altered Pana lenses for three to four times the prices of the original lenses.

[Jon Warwick]

I quite like the look of these lenses, but more for a slight size and weight advantage (nearing half the weight) compared to the SL APO Summicrons. Would it replace the APO primes for me, I expect not for image quality, but I could envisage using them for those times if I wanted a lighter and more compact SL kit for (say) touring around a city on holiday.

[BernardC]

41 minutes ago, bandrews said:

You say that as though Leica hasn't been collaborating with Panasonic (and countless other brand partnerships) for the last 20 years.

Exactly, it's not a new thing. Leica has collaborated with Schneider, Angénieux, Novoflex, Minolta, Zeiss, Fuji, Sigma, and others, since the 1930s. People seem to forget that every time a new co-developed lens comes out, but it's certainly not a new thing.

[rsh]

3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Now I really have a bad feeling about future SL3-S being a rebadge S5 II with cosmetic enhancement and Leica UI at 2x the price

Leica and Panasonic are developing cameras and lenses jointly thru L2.  I doubt it will be an exact rebadge but there will be many common components. 

[ivohula]

It is funny that some people think that these lenses should have APO performance at less than half the price. It is also amusing that some people right away think that these must be Panasonic or some other brand knockoffs. 

Leica has been designing lenses for almost 100 years and I have to see anyone here think that this is one of their old lens designs tweaked for the SL line. Maybe look at the  7 element, rigid 50mm M Summicron introduced with the M3. Looks like a very close sibling. Why copy another brand when your shelf is full of great old product in the first place.

[rtai]

The VE 24-90 is the best zoom I have ever used. It’s however big and heavy and I see multiple used ones in every online camera shop in the country. Seems users feel the same way and have abandoned monster lenses. I am interested in these new lenses but they’ll have to be at least 90% as good given the adage the last 10% is the most expensive. 

[da_eltsch]

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Am 7.2.2023 um 04:03 schrieb Stuart Richardson:

 Same goes for things like tilt shift lenses (which I would love, but will almost certainly never happen). I would even like to see a bellows or even a collaboration with Sinar (who they own) to make a technical camera or at least a mounting plate to mount the SL2 on a Sinar monorail. They did it for the S, but the SL2 is much more suitable since it is a mirrorless camera and has an electronic shutter.

Dear Stuart,
as much as I love the Sinar View Camera idea. Sinar is not anymore owned by Leica but by Christoph Fries who has taken over responsibility for Sinar at least one year ago.

Best regards,
Helge

[oldwino]

It is quite possible that these lenses are based on the LUMIX lenses, maybe Leica/Panasonic designed, the optical parts (and maybe AF motors) shipped to Portugal for assembly in Leica made housings. With tighter quality control and firmware favorable to the Leica system.

Whether that makes them rebadged LUMIX lenses then is open to individual interpretation. 

[hansvons]

It's simple. People on these forums complain about size and weight. They complain about the price. They "threaten" to leave the system and whatnot.

Now Leica delivered. You can buy cheaper, lighter primes. Alas, that was wrong, too, because a partner in Japan builds more affordable cameras and lenses, and these new lenses could be rebadged clones. Even the fact that they are almost double the weight and are made in Portugal by Leica's factory (that's Europe and not Japan) doesn't help because it's not Germany. Being a German, I can assure you there's stuff from Japan that's better than German products. 

Ok. What does that mean for me? Leica is heavily invested in the SL system. So much so that they want it to be successful in the mainstream with some budget. That could also mean Leica might hear those who wish to make the SL system more affordable/accessible. Not a bad thing, I reckon. Your mileage may vary, of course. 

[Olaf_ZG]

I will not be a customer for this. If I want small, I would go for the Sigma 2.0 line as those are really smaller. And for quality I would buy an APO.

That said, looking at my current set of lenses which I use with the SL, there is no Sigma.

I have a panasonic zoom, two tilt/shifts from canon, some m-mount and one apo. 

[sebben]

Not a fan of the petal shaped hood. Wish it was round like the apo Summicrons 

Edited February 8, 2023 by sebben

[Jon Schick]

5 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Now I really have a bad feeling about future SL3-S being a rebadge S5 II with cosmetic enhancement and Leica UI at 2x the price

Actually if it's a reworked S5ii but in the style of a downsized SL2S, with a sensor stack which is better suited to M lenses, I think that would be a very smart move indeed.

[Simone_DF]

8 minutes ago, Jon Schick said:

Actually if it's a reworked S5ii but in the style of a downsized SL2S, with a sensor stack which is better suited to M lenses, I think that would be a very smart move indeed.

I'd buy that instantly!

[kobra]

18 minutes ago, Jon Schick said:

Actually if it's a reworked S5ii but in the style of a downsized SL2S, with a sensor stack which is better suited to M lenses, I think that would be a very smart move indeed.

I like that also, but I hesitate to call that a "reworked S5ii". By the time all of the above is done, it is a very different/new camera. And, I think that's a good thing. 

Brad

 

[opera207]

People, just buy Panasonic Lumix f1.8 series, they are all the same, just like SL 24-70mm f2.8 vs. Sigma 24-70mm f2.8.

[Stuart Richardson]

5 hours ago, sebben said:

Not a fan of the petal shaped hood. Wish it was round like the apo Summicrons 

The 50mm APO Summicron is round, but the 35mm APO has a more rectangular hood. That said, they all have a 67mm filter thread, so perhaps the round hood would work on the new ones too?

[beewee]

I don’t quite see the reason for these lenses. Based on the MTF curves and specs, the Leica version looks very much identical to the Lumix version once you account for differences in the  30 lp/mm vs 20/40 lp/mm. The only clear differences I can see are:

• Barrel material being all metal compared to the plastic Lumix
• Weight being more because of metal barrel
• Aquadura lens coating vs Panasonic’s own lens coating
• A huge price difference

I don’t think the price difference really justifies perceived premium metal barrel and Leica Aquadura coatings. At least not at the current price point.

If I had to write a description of the target customer for these lenses, it would be someone:

• Brand conscious but doesn’t know much about optics,
• Who already have an SL2-S body and wants a Leica branded lens but don’t want to spend money for the APO primes
• Who maybe have a Lumix S body and wants ‘premium optics’ but doesn’t realize that Leica’s non-APO primes are basically rebadged Panasonic lenses on the inside

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by beewee

[robb]

You can buy a Volkswagen or an Audi that aren’t that different to many people.  Same engine.  Same parts underneath.  Dif body.  Different looks and some dif materials / packaging.  And I can say I enjoyed an Audi I owned more than a Volkswagen my wife owned for many reasons despite the obvious similarities and shared components.

All things slide on a scale on what you can justify spending whether it’s a dress shirt, brand of milk, or wrist watch…

picking one item over a lesser or more expensive version doesn’t make someone stupid, or cheap, or superficial.  We like what we like.

Robb

[nicci78]

17 hours ago, BernardC said:

Did you mean 1.4x, or is one of the two prices wrong?

It’s a typo, Sigma variant is 1199€ vs 2810€ for Leica 

Hence 2.34x more expensive for the red dot

Edited February 9, 2023 by nicci78

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[nicci78]

The real problem with those rebadge is that Lumix S F/1.8 lenses are just average in IQ department. Nothing to rave about. So paying 3x or 4x for slower aperture, heavier but metal barrel, better coatings and more stringent quality control will not make them stellar optics. 
You want metal construction ? Better IQ ? Slower aperture ? Sigma already got us covered at a fraction of the price with their i series of DG DN contemporary. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by nicci78