SL3 Rumors

[Olaf_ZG]

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On topic: the reason I would buy the SL3 for the ability of long exposure photography. This would mean, a tiltable screen (really useful when the camera is on a tripod, positioned higher or lower than I am) and good results with the LENR turned off.

Basically, the X2D or GFX100 would be the best camera, but sometimes I need a longer lens, and that’s why I still have the SL.

Now, some Q users would say I could crop, so maybe the above mentioned cameras are a valuable option. I bought the SL as I thought I would use m-lenses, but in reality I don’t.

This weekend I will try to replace the flipscreen wth FOTOS. How will it work outside? If it does, the need to me is reduced to one advantage… to turn off LENR and deliver good results. Really curious. 8k also gives me a new HB, which is proven to be great with LE.

So, though I thought I would be totally in for the SL3, I have some doubts. 

[Olaf_ZG]

What is a bad sign though - at least to me - that second hand stock of lenses is not moving. At least at my dealer. And for this reason I would be very hesitant to buy new. Not only lenses, but also cameras. Even the SL3.

[Jon Warwick]

2 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

….second hand stock of lenses is not moving. At least at my dealer.

 

Anecdotally, I had an SL 75mm that I tried to sell used on commission via some very good dealers for very roughly 55% of new price here …which was prior to me paying commission ….and eventually gave up after 6 months of no success. At the other extreme, I saw a used M 35 APO that sold really quickly, and at a relatively full price.

Edited January 26, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[Parolibre]

I would have to agree with Olaf_ZG there. Here in Hong Kong, you can get a used VE 24-90 for $2500 USD. And a used impeccable condition SL2 for 3K….. not looking good. 

[Planetwide]

I've seen this before. The slow introduction of a new model tends to hammer prices a bit. When the SL3 hits the market, prices will firm up...

[intermediatic]

I’m afraid they waited too long. The SL-2 got me back into Leica when I thought I was done with it, then I bought into the new Ms and Qs. I kept waiting for an SL-3 with 60mp, but it didn’t happen even as Sony marched far ahead and I bought into Sony gear. And even sol I asked my dealer to reserve me for me, well now I have to let him know the bad news, I just placed an order for the Hasselblad 907x and 100c. A rich legacy of lenses and a dream platform for roughly the same price as a camera that is only rumored at this point. 
 

Scary to hear about the lenses as I have a large number to sell now.

All this makes me sad, except for the Hasselblad, that makes me happy.

[Jeff S]

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100 MP without IBIS…and rear screen viewing only…no thanks. But the X2D….

Jeff

[Olaf_ZG]

9 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Anecdotally, I had an SL 75mm that I tried to sell used on commission via some very good dealers for very roughly 55% of new price here …which was prior to me paying commission ….and eventually gave up after 6 months of no success. At the other extreme, I saw a used M 35 APO that sold really quickly, and at a relatively full price.

My remark was towards the SL lenses. The m-mount seems to sell well.

[NicholasT]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:55 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

In Europe they appear to be available from credible dealers for £3000-£3500

Actually there are currently copies of the SL 50mm F 1.4 in like new or excellent condition from reliable vendors at even lower prices ( 15% lower). The size and weight is clearly scaring buyers away.

I’ve owned the SL 50 F2 APO and sold it. I’m mostly a 35mm prime shooter with periodic use of 50mm. That said, I am tempted by the 50mm F1.4.

Currently own the SL 35 F2 APO and SL 75 F2 APO but may seriously consider adding the SL 50mm F1.4 in the near future. It’s a rather narrow personal use case, but the photos and arguments in its favour are quite convincing. 

I’m at the stage where I take fewer and fewer images, delete 75% in post and am only interested in images that I consider “keepers”.

A Lightroom catalog with tens of thousands of images is no longer appealing. I wish I had deleted more photos in years past or at least had a more robust rating system so I can easily delete them now!

My shift to “less is more” is also influencing my lens selection. I’m slowly but steadily moving from high quality zooms to favouring primes in more shooting scenarios, although I do still value the zooms in situations where rapidly changing light or external conditions are not conducive to changing lenses on the go.

No lens can turn a mediocre composition into a good one, however Leica  SL primes can at times elevate a good image to “keeper” status. 

Edited January 27, 2024 by NicholasT

[LocalHero1953]

21 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

Actually there are currently copies of the SL 50mm F 1.4 in like new or excellent condition from reliable vendors at even lower prices ( 15% lower). The size and weight is clearly scaring buyers away.

I’ve owned the SL 50 F2 APO and sold it. I’m mostly a 35mm prime shooter with periodic use of 50mm. That said, I am tempted by the 50mm F1.4.

Currently own the SL 35 F2 APO and SL 75 F2 APO but may seriously consider adding the SL 50mm F1.4 in the near future. It’s a rather narrow personal use case, but the photos and arguments in its favour are quite convincing. 

 

Not to divert this thread (again!), there are two (1) separate (2) threads about the SL 50 f/1.4. As you'll see there, I bought one on eBay from the UK at a price much lower than the range I quoted.

Edited January 27, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[NicholasT]

12 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

What is a bad sign though - at least to me - that second hand stock of lenses is not moving. At least at my dealer. And for this reason I would be very hesitant to buy new. Not only lenses, but also cameras. Even the SL3.

+1

In the short term it’s a concerning trend.

Longer term I think the prospects for SL lens increasing in value is actually quite good for the following reasons:

- Leica is likely to reduce production of SL prime lens. As a premium brand that relies on exclusivity and high prices Leica cannot afford to keep up supply under soft market conditions.

-This will ultimately limit the supply of SL primes relative to the installed base of SL, SL2 and soon SL3 cameras. 

-As Leica introduces the SL3 and future SL cameras with even higher resolution SL prime performance should be valued more than it is today or at least that’s my personal belief.

-Leica’s new prices on SL primes is not likely to come down (for long list of reasons) and likely will continue to increase in price (with lower supply). Used prices should firm up and ultimately go up reversing the current trend.

All of the above will only hold true if Leica continues to do well with SL camera sales. I see Hasselblad X2D as Leica SL existential threat. The X2D has an even better user interface than Leica SL cameras. If Hasselblad further improves autofocus, introduces a broader set of lenses (including long lenses which is a key deficiency) I think they are likely to put a serious dent in Leica’s SL3 sales.

How Leica responds with SL3 and follow on SL camera and lens releases will largely determine how this plays out and how many of us remain in the Leica SL fold.

I was already composing this message when I saw LocalHero1953 spot on response to previous post.

I decided to post this anyhow. While the reference to SL primes pricing is off topic, the tie in with SL3 sales and future the future of SL camera line seems very much on topic.

Edited January 27, 2024 by NicholasT

[Parolibre]

1 hour ago, NicholasT said:

+1

In the short term it’s a concerning trend.

Longer term I think the prospects for SL lens increasing in value is actually quite good for the following reasons:

- Leica is likely to reduce production of SL prime lens. As a premium brand that relies on exclusivity and high prices Leica cannot afford to keep up supply under soft market conditions.

-This will ultimately limit the supply of SL primes relative to the installed base of SL, SL2 and soon SL3 cameras. 

-As Leica introduces the SL3 and future SL cameras with even higher resolution SL prime performance should be valued more than it is today or at least that’s my personal belief.

-Leica’s new prices on SL primes is not likely to come down (for long list of reasons) and likely will continue to increase in price (with lower supply). Used prices should firm up and ultimately go up reversing the current trend.

All of the above will only hold true if Leica continues to do well with SL camera sales. I see Hasselblad X2D as Leica SL existential threat. The X2D has an even better user interface than Leica SL cameras. If Hasselblad further improves autofocus, introduces a broader set of lenses (including long lenses which is a key deficiency) I think they are likely to put a serious dent in Leica’s SL3 sales.

How Leica responds with SL3 and follow on SL camera and lens releases will largely determine how this plays out and how many of us remain in the Leica SL fold.

I was already composing this message when I saw LocalHero1953 spot on response to previous post.

I decided to post this anyhow. While the reference to SL primes pricing is off topic, the tie in with SL3 sales and future the future of SL camera line seems very much on topic.

Great analysis. Personally i still think the SL line and the XCD line from Hasselblad are not direct competitors at the current state, and I think people use these two systems for very different purposes…However if Hasselblad/DJI collaboration brought further significant improvements such as autofocus that is faster than the SL line (which should not be too difficult), similar feature set combined with the HNCS… I don’t see myself returning to the SL system. Just my /2 cents. 

[Simone_DF]

8 minutes ago, Parolibre said:

if Hasselblad/DJI collaboration brought further significant improvements such as autofocus that is faster than the SL line (which should not be too difficult), similar feature set combined with the HNCS… I don’t see myself returning to the SL system. Just my /2 cents. 

That is a bit unlikely. Hasselblad/DJI doesn't have the resource power of Panasonic to dedicate to autofocus improvements. The S5II AF, while not at the same level of Sony and Nikon, is actually quite good now thanks to PDAF. It still needs polishing and refining, but it will get there.

If the 8k rumors are true, I think the price will have a much bigger impact to the sales of the SL3. 

[Parolibre]

Just now, Simone_DF said:

That is a bit unlikely. Hasselblad/DJI doesn't have the resource power of Panasonic to dedicate to autofocus improvements. The S5II AF, while not at the same level of Sony and Nikon, is actually quite good now thanks to PDAF. It still needs polishing and refining, but it will get there.

If the 8k rumors are true, I think the price will have a much bigger impact to the sales of the SL3. 

That’s true but I believe that Panasonic makes the new XCD V lens (38,55 and 90)for Hasselblad, not sure to what extent they would share their latest tech though.  One thing I do really prefer from my SL2S over my X2D are: 

(1) joystick control for moving the focus point. The Hasselblad has a weird way to move it with the customizable wheel but I feel like the one SL is much more well-designed IMO. 
(2) Water and Dust Resistant. 
(3) Auto ISO in M mode 

[NicholasT]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Not to divert this thread (again!), there are two (1) separate (2) threads about the SL 50 f/1.4. As you'll see there, I bought one on eBay from the UK at a price much lower than the range I quoted.

Thanks for directing me to SL 50 F1.4 threads.

You did some extensive lens comparisons in those threads which will greatly help with my decision regarding 50mm F1.4 potential purchase going forward. 

Getting back on topic I’m looking forward to SL3 introduction.

The M11 / Q3 sensor seems like an ok upgrade, but what I’m mostly looking forward to is improved autofocus, internal ssd storage, flip screen (high priority). Also hoping Leica also includes content credentials as I see this as an important feature in all future cameras (if properly implemented).

If SL3 doesn’t include most or all of the above, I would seriously consider keeping my SL2 and adding SL2-s as a backup and for low light scenarios. From pricing standpoint SL3 is likely to come out at rough equivalent of used SL2 + SL2-S combo, so I don’t see the upgrade as a given.

[NicholasT]

25 minutes ago, Parolibre said:

That’s true but I believe that Panasonic makes the new XCD V lens (38,55 and 90)for Hasselblad, not sure to what extent they would share their latest tech though.  One thing I do really prefer from my SL2S over my X2D are: 

(1) joystick control for moving the focus point. The Hasselblad has a weird way to move it with the customizable wheel but I feel like the one SL is much more well-designed IMO. 
(2) Water and Dust Resistant. 
(3) Auto ISO in M mode 

+1

Hasselblad would be wise to add a joystick in next iteration X3D?

The omission of a joystick is universally panned by X2D owners and is deal breaker from my standpoint if I was to consider adding that camera in the future.

I have no idea how Hasselblad product management thought it a good idea for users to be looking through the viewfinder while simultaneously trying to manipulate the focus point on the screen as many users report doing. A clear case of form over function IMHO. 

Leica SL joystick is well executed to the point of meriting special mention as a “feature”.

Edited January 27, 2024 by NicholasT

[Sohail]

57 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

If SL3 doesn’t include most or all of the above, I would seriously consider keeping my SL2 and adding SL2-s as a backup and for low light scenarios. From pricing standpoint SL3 is likely to come out at rough equivalent of used SL2 + SL2-S combo, so I don’t see the upgrade as a given.

I've already come to that conclusion. SL2-S as a backup to an SL2 primarily for lowlight scenarios. 

Having the flip or tiltable screen on an SL body is a deal breaker for me. 

Edited January 27, 2024 by Sohail

[SrMi]

6 hours ago, NicholasT said:

+1

Hasselblad would be wise to add a joystick in next iteration X3D?

The omission of a joystick is universally panned by X2D owners and is deal breaker from my standpoint if I was to consider adding that camera in the future.

I have no idea how Hasselblad product management thought it a good idea for users to be looking through the viewfinder while simultaneously trying to manipulate the focus point on the screen as many users report doing. A clear case of form over function IMHO. 

Leica SL joystick is well executed to the point of meriting special mention as a “feature”.

I do not mind the missing joystick on X2D. Using LCD as a touchpad works fine for me. However, I do prefer a good working joystick to move the focus point

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, Sohail said:

Having the flip or tiltable screen on an SL body is a deal breaker for me. 

Why? You don’t have to tilt it if you don’t want to. 

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[Sohail]

3 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Why? You don’t have to tilt it if you don’t want to. 

One of the reasons I like the SL is its minimalist and elegant design. The simpler the better. If you want every conceivable feature out there and a gazillion buttons, go for a Sony or a Panasonic. For me, putting a flip screen on an SL body is like putting spoilers on a Rolls Royce. In a sense, part of me thinks that maybe they should go ahead and do that to the SL3. It would make the SL2 range look even better.