50/2 Summicron (non-APO) vs 50/1.4 Summilux ASPH

[bourne]

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Forgive me if this exact topic appears elsewhere, but I thought a fresh discussion of the merits of both of these fine lenses would be of interest. Would love to know all the pros/cons etc... I currently have a 35/2 Summicron and am contemplating a purchase of a 50 mm Leica lens.  Look forward to everyones remarks!

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[lct]

Different character. Mandler vs Karbe. Apple vs orange to me but i'm not good at comparing lenses of different apertures anyway.

[jakontil]

I had the cron f2 it was great and small compact lens.. the only thing that swung me away to lux is bcoz i mainly shot portraits and the wider opening without sacrificing quality in the summilux

by f2.8 they perform very close to each other.. so unless you need f1.4, the cron is a great lens too

[WvE]

Owned both the 50/2 V4 and V5 Crons, both fantastic lenses, very sharp, compact and relatively light. The Lux is fairly heavy but renders beautifully, with some more bokeh. However, if I would start all over, I would settle for the compact Cron V4, it's good enough for basically everything. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by WvE

[S Maclean]

The Lux wins as a single lens here.  It may be a little heavier adn slightly longer but it remains fairly compact and allows you a much wider choice of use, from protrait to street to architecture.  Great contrast and sharpness, as noted above maybe slughtly softer wide open (but that's kind of a character trait) but very equal stepped down.

I have both and in my case I may actually let go of the lux becasue I have the APO, and then a Nokton 1. that would serve me for more artistic portraiture.  I also have a 75 and a 35 Nokton 1.2 (waiting for the lux 35mm) so it makes sense to me to keep the APO.

That being said I have not been able to let go of the lux yet.  It's that good.

[wda]

I have and like both lenses, but the Summicron (yes, I appreciate the full name) is more likely to travel with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jean-Michel]

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Either lens would be fine, I'm sure. I personally never wondered about trying different lenses of the same focal length and kept using the same lens over and over of way too many years to admit: 135 on a SpeedGraphic, 90, 150 and 210 for a Super-Cambo, then 80 and 150 for the Hasselblads, … for the Leica, I started with a 50 Summicron (so called Rigid now) with my then new M4; liked it, and kept using it for 50+ years. I now use current 50 and 35 Summicrons, when choosing which lens to buy – Summicron or Summilux I chose the Summicron because of familiarity, the cost difference was also a bit of a factor: $3,800 vs $5,900 (Canadian).

Maybe there should be a Leica M model with a lens turret so that one could mount 3 lenses at once, just like on a Bell and Howell movie camera. 😀

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

Maybe there should be a Leica M model with a lens turret so that one could mount 3 lenses at once, just like on a Bell and Howell movie camera. 😀

Closest thing is the 28/35/50 Tri-Elmar (MATE). I would love to see a modern replacement with less complex and more reliable mechanics (and perhaps zoom capability like the WATE).  Even a 35/50 Bi-Elmar would be a nice travel option, with the obvious trade off of slower apertures.

Jeff

[Jean-Michel]

I knew that it existed! Google came to my rescue: 

 See also: http://www.tamarkin.com/blog/orolf-lens-turret

[Jeff S]

Glad this idea didn’t take off.  Can only imagine the constant threads…What are the best lenses (by location)/camera bags/straps/cases etc for an M with turret? 
 

Jeff

 

[Lelmer]

Pretty decent comparison of the 50's you are after

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Lelmer

[dpitt]

2 hours ago, Lelmer said:

Pretty good comparison of the 50's you are after

 

@Lelmer Thanks for posting the link. It is very recognizable and quite unique to see such an in depth comparison. Interesting to see how he describes the Summilux 'glow' which is also present when stopped down. I have the Summilux 50 v1(non-ASPH)  and the Summicron 50 v4 - optically the same as the one in the video (v5). My old Summilux has the same 'glow' or 'artistic' feel about it when treating light.

Of course the overall wide open performance of the the ASPH Summilux is better than the Summilux v1. What is different with the Summilux v1  is that it has the same kind of DOF as the Summicron v5 at the same aperture. This 'shallower' DOF rendering seems to be inherent to the ASPH design.

If it would be my only 50 I would prefer the Summicron:

1. Size and weight. The difference with my v4 is make or break for the pocket test, so the Summilux is more often left at home Although I must admit even the v4 is just a bit too large. I much prefer the Collapsible Summicron 50 when I do not take a camera bag with me.
2. With todays high ISO performance the one stop advantage is not as valuable as it is on my M9.
3. f1.4 is not always practical if you have enough light. DOF is often too shallow for my taste, so I would often use the Summilux stopped down outside.
4. The Summicron renders  optically more correct and more malleable . I do not mind adding a bit of contrast and saturation in post where needed. The Summilux ASPH feels a bit much in the face to me sometimes. Removing saturation and contrast in post looks not as pleasing as the other way around. And I feel that the ASPH look is harder to remove if you would want to.

IMO:
It's a matter of taste, both are very good performers. They are very similar on most aspects but have different DOF, contrast and saturation.

Edited January 18, 2023 by dpitt

[bourne]

I have found all of the comments so very helpful and insightful. I really love the way my 35/2 Summicron renders so I am most likely inclined to purchase a 50/2 Summicron(non APO). I also very much like the size difference in the Summicron line!

 

Look forward to more comments. Thanks again!!!

[Kiwimac]

9 hours ago, Jean-Michel said:

Either lens would be fine, I'm sure. I personally never wondered about trying different lenses of the same focal length and kept using the same lens over and over of way too many years to admit: 135 on a SpeedGraphic, 90, 150 and 210 for a Super-Cambo, then 80 and 150 for the Hasselblads, … for the Leica, I started with a 50 Summicron (so called Rigid now) with my then new M4; liked it, and kept using it for 50+ years. I now use current 50 and 35 Summicrons, when choosing which lens to buy – Summicron or Summilux I chose the Summicron because of familiarity, the cost difference was also a bit of a factor: $3,800 vs $5,900 (Canadian).

Maybe there should be a Leica M model with a lens turret so that one could mount 3 lenses at once, just like on a Bell and Howell movie camera. 😀

Just buy a copy of the discontinued MATE! 
 

28,35 and 50 at f4 on one lens. 

[wdshuck]

I went through the same choice and went with the Summicron 50. I’ve been very happy, especially with how small and light it makes my M10.

I’ve since also added a VM 50 F1, which provides a very different look and is much larger.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

Just buy a copy of the discontinued MATE! 
 

28,35 and 50 at f4 on one lens. 

Post #8

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

Back when the summilux ASPH was introduced, I was using the 50mm f2 Summicron as my main lens. This was before the digital M's were out. I bought the Summilux ASPH and compared it to the Summicron. Using film, I did not find much of an advantage for one over the other. To my taste the sharpness and rendering were similar enough to be insignificant. The biggest differences are that the Summilux is one stop faster, and the Summicron is a bit smaller and lighter. You can also differentiate based on whether you prefer a focus tab or not. In the end I kept the Summilux and sold the Summicron because I felt that the extra stop was more useful than the slight reduction in weight and size. I still have and use the Summilux all the time. Having had it since 2004, I think almost twenty years is a pretty good run for a lens...going from film, to 10mp all the way to today's 50+ megapixels...

[didier]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:37 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

In the end I kept the Summilux and sold the Summicron because I felt that the extra stop was more useful than the slight reduction in weight and size. I still have and use the Summilux all the time. Having had it since 2004, I think almost twenty years is a pretty good run for a lens...going from film, to 10mp all the way to today's 50+ megapixels...

+1

bought my ‘lux ASPH and sold my Summicron back in 2005, used it ever since on my M6, M3, M(240) and now M10M 

Though I bought back a Summicron v4 later I still use today as well  

 

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