SL2 -S with M 90mm Lens Tele Elmarit 2.8 (1974 - 1990) vs. Summicron Pre Asph?

[Studiopfp]

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I recently bought the SL2-S and took it on a trip to France last Fall to shoot a lot of low light photography in Paris and on a road trip to Southern France.  I also attended Paris Photo, where I saw a lot of B&W images that I loved, with very tight composition, shot with a normal or telephoto lens. 

My kit was the SLS-2, M246, 35 mm Summicron, 50 mm Sumicron APO and Summilux Pre ASPH, 90 mm Tele Elmarit and 135 mm Elmar (1960's). I shoot 100% B&W.

If I want color to send to friends, to keep them posted, I just pull out my iPhone and take the shot and send it wireless to whoever I want.. 

Although it was hard to accept that this was a better experience, than using my trusted M246 (which I still love), I found that with the incredible EVF, high ISO and IBIS, I was shooting and nailing focus at night in ways that I just knew would have been risky with the M246 (which I used more during daylight hours as result).

I took my 90mm Tele Elmarit and 135 mm Elmar on the trip, and they are wonderful because of the weight, and stopped down are very sharp.  

Now, back in the US, I am off to Sundance Film Festival next week. I have been so happy with the SL2-S I am much more comfortable shooting with the telephoto lenses than I was with the M246, due to the difficulty of nailing focus when used wide open.  However, with these lenses, wide open, they are pretty soft.   At Sundance, I want to shoot some portraits, and also parties at night, where I probably won't be able to get too close to the subject, and I want to shoot wide open to isolate the the subject. Weight and size are not really a concern, as this is a three day trip, and I won't be traveling extensively as I did for a month in France. 

 So I'm thinking of trying the slightly faster and more modern 2.0 90mm Summicron (Pre-ASPH) to see how it works with the SLS-2. 

Main reasons are:

Weight and Balance - The Elmarit 90 mm  is so small and light, it's perfect on the M246, but with the heavier SLS-2 I think I might find the balance and shooting experience better

Sharpness wide open - The Elmarit is soft at 2.8, will the Summicron be sharper at 2.0 and 2.8, so that I can shoot wide open to isolate my subject, but get a bit more sharpness and contrast than with the Elmarit?

Studio Portraiture - In the past, when I wanted to shoot portraits, I used my Canon 5D with the 1.8 85mm and love the results.  But now with the SLS-2 and the ability of this EVF to nail focus, I'm thinking of shifting to the Leica for studio portraiture.  In the studio the size and weight of the 90mm Summicron aren't an issue.  So a 90 mm Summicron might be a good complement the 90 2.8 Elmarit that I would use when I go on road trips and don't want the weight.

Anyone with experience using either of these 90 mm lenses with the SL2 -S?  Either individually, or side by side?  Again, this is for a B&W shooter.  I realize there are issue with purple fringing, coating, etc... that would be issues for color, but that's not an issue for me.  I'm looking more for the vintage, Leica glow, and don't like the clinical look of the current modern Leica glass. 

Thoughts?

[frame-it]

" I'm looking more for the vintage, Leica glow, and don't like the clinical look of the current modern Leica glass. "

>>>

i like this 90mm much more than my 90mmAPO Summicron-M, delicious rendering and perfectly fine in low light

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Edited January 15, 2023 by frame-it

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[Stef63]

48 minutes ago, Studiopfp said:

Studio Portraiture - In the past, when I wanted to shoot portraits, I used my Canon 5D with the 1.8 85mm and love the results. 

Do you still have the Canon 85 mm?  You might consider a Sigma MC-21 adapter.  Will result in maybe not the fastest AF, but manual focusing is perfectly possible with this adapter.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Stef63

[Studiopfp]

@frame-it  Yes, that's what I'm hoping/looking for.  Which 90 Summicron is that? 

I understand there are a least two versions produced before the APO was introduced. 

 

 

[Studiopfp]

@frame-it  Yes, that's what I'm hoping/looking for.  Which 90 Summicron is that? 

I understand there are a least two versions produced before the APO was introduced. 

 

 

[Studiopfp]

@Step63  Hmm... Interesting idea! It had not occurred to me to use my Canon glass on the SLS-2.  It would be interesting to see what a side by side comparison of the image with the Canon 1.8 and Summicron 90 would look like.  Will the EVF and frame lines work with the Canon glass to focus manually?  I guess so?

[dpitt]

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If weight is of no concern, you might as well look for the Summicron 1:2.0/90mm R. Lovely lens for portraits and really sharp stopped down.
I  do not have the SL2, but have used this one on the R8+DMR and Canon 5D.

Edit: the R version is lighter and smaller than the M version I Summicron 90mm!

Edited January 15, 2023 by dpitt

[frame-it]

6 hours ago, Studiopfp said:

@frame-it  Yes, that's what I'm hoping/looking for.  Which 90 Summicron is that? 

I understand there are a least two versions produced before the APO was introduced. 

 

 

this one

 

[Photoworks]

9 hours ago, Studiopfp said:

Sharpness wide open - The Elmarit is soft at 2.8, will the Summicron be sharper at 2.0 and 2.8, so that I can shoot wide open to isolate my subject, but get a bit more sharpness and contrast than with the Elmarit?

 

9 hours ago, Studiopfp said:

I'm looking more for the vintage, Leica glow, and don't like the clinical look of the current modern Leica glass. 

not sure how to suggest a lens for you. you want sharper and faster, but you want the vintage glow. isn't it a contradiction?

My first suggestion is the 75 Summilux-M. It is quite soft and glow. sometime you don't even know it is in focus.

The 90 Summicron non APO is in the save vain, soft and low contrast.

The 90 summicron-M APO is a good portrait lens, in focus but overly sharpened with lots of detail. Excellent portrait lens, it is hard to focus on the M camera, that is why you find many of them on the used market. Even on the SL they can be challenging wide open.

I am currently using the the 90 mm Summarit-M on my M11, it is the lightest, detailed at 2.4f, and easy to focus. ( I did tested the 90 elmar and voightlender 90, 2.8, and wide open they didn't keep up with the resolution of higher MP) 

I understand you don't want modern lenses, but the sigma is quite nice at 1.4 and it does have some glow at 1.4, it cleans out rapidly at f2.

[Stef63]

7 hours ago, Studiopfp said:

@Step63  Hmm... Interesting idea! It had not occurred to me to use my Canon glass on the SLS-2.  It would be interesting to see what a side by side comparison of the image with the Canon 1.8 and Summicron 90 would look like.  Will the EVF and frame lines work with the Canon glass to focus manually?  I guess so?

Not what you are asking exactly but here is a comparison of the Canon 85 EF L 1.2 and the APO Summicron-M 2.0.  I do not want to spoil which is which yet.  But there seems to be some confusion about the Cron and the Canon among forum members. 

 

[Studiopfp]

@Stef63  A few weeks later.. Thanks for the recommendation to try the SL2S w. Canon!

I called B&H and they recommended the Sigma adapter for Canon. So I went in and tried the Canon 85mm 1.2 on my SL2-S but found it a) really didn't autofocus (not a big issue, I'm used to manual focus) but b) was very front heavy on the SL2s body.  So I just bought the Sigma adapter to use with my  85mm 1.2 lens.  I then did a shoot with a model, using both  the 85mm 1.8 and and the 90mm Sumicron (non APO) that I got from KEH.  I loved the look of the Canon 85mm 1.8 on the SL2S!  It has the contrastly but at the same time softer look and feel that works for my model photography.  The 90mm Cron was sharper, and I had to do some work in LR, but I liked it too.  Each has a look that I liked

Then I went out and ordered a 135mm Canon L to try on the SL2S for street photography.  Went out to shoot in the street on a cold day in downtown Annapolis.  Was really able to isolate the subject from the background, stop motion, an get a good sharp image with the Canon 135mm, so really please with this acquisition.  Just gives me a bit more reach than the 90mm Cron.  The Canon 135mm L is a bigger, heavier lens than the 90mm 'Cron, but since I was standing on the other side of the street, I really felt comfortable getting the shots and not being too obtrusive.  

Thanks to Stef63 for pointing out that the Canon would be worth trying out!