M11 Mainboard died - 8.500€ Junk

[Jan1985]

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Something happened to my M11, that I never expected. My M11 didn‘t react anymore afer I tried everything you can do to fix issues. I sent it to Leica and they changed the whole Mainboard. After I connected my dealer, he said, that this is not the only M11 with that problem.

And my question is: How can Leica implement such a junky mainboard into a 8.500€ Camera? Sorry to say. I have the 2 5D MK III of Canon. They are both 10 years old. And I never had such a problem with them. Seems that not in every part Leica seems to integrate high quality parts.

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[andybarton]

I'm pleased to see that Leica sorted your camera for you.

Electronic components fail - it's a fact of life. I had a Mac that died through a board failure and Apple replaced it under warranty, as Leica have done with you.

Just be grateful you don't have a friend of mine's Audi Q3. Pretty much everything with a wire attached to it has failed and Audi have been woeful in not fixing it. The car is a write-off, even though it looks perfect and has done about 3,000 miles.

[jakontil]

3 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Something happened to my M11, that I never expected. My M11 didn‘t react anymore afer I tried everything you can do to fix issues. I sent it to Leica and they changed the whole Mainboard. After I connected my dealer, he said, that this is not the only M11 with that problem.

And my question is: How can Leica implement such a junky mainboard into a 8.500€ Camera? Sorry to say. I have the 2 5D MK III of Canon. They are both 10 years old. And I never had such a problem with them. Seems that not in every part Leica seems to integrate high quality parts.

Probably that’s the reason why there’s warranty

[colonel]

3 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Something happened to my M11, that I never expected. My M11 didn‘t react anymore afer I tried everything you can do to fix issues. I sent it to Leica and they changed the whole Mainboard. After I connected my dealer, he said, that this is not the only M11 with that problem.

And my question is: How can Leica implement such a junky mainboard into a 8.500€ Camera? Sorry to say. I have the 2 5D MK III of Canon. They are both 10 years old. And I never had such a problem with them. Seems that not in every part Leica seems to integrate high quality parts.

Well I don't know. Not defending Leica ad nauseum, but after Canon 5D sensors falling off, SD card corruption and other things, I realise that everything is a machine and can fail.

Leica electronics are top standard, and are designed in conjunction with Panasonic, which is one of the best electronic houses in the world.

Leica software however is often slightly behind the times, but by the mid of a production run they have normally sorted everything

The good news (at least here in the UK) is that whenever I have needed Leica support, which frankly has been a couple of times over more then 20 cameras (don't tell my wife !!) they have been absolutely top notch in responsiveness, help and repair, even giving me a loaner camera whilst mine was in repair.

Sorry to hear about your issue. Hope everything forward from here goes well and you get the enjoyment out of this wonderful camera that you deserve ...

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Something happened to my M11, that I never expected. My M11 didn‘t react anymore afer I tried everything you can do to fix issues. I sent it to Leica and they changed the whole Mainboard. After I connected my dealer, he said, that this is not the only M11 with that problem.

And my question is: How can Leica implement such a junky mainboard into a 8.500€ Camera? Sorry to say. I have the 2 5D MK III of Canon. They are both 10 years old. And I never had such a problem with them. Seems that not in every part Leica seems to integrate high quality parts.

Changing motherboard doesn’t mean that the motherboard is a problem. It means that they either could not locate the exact problem or it may have been the cheapest way to fix your camera. Sometimes, and especially in the early life of a model, the easiest way to fix a camera is not to replace a motherboard but to replace the whole camera.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Sometimes, and especially in the early life of a model, the easiest way to fix a camera is not to replace a motherboard but to replace the whole camera.

I would have insisted on exactly that.  And not looked back.  That’s what a good dealer is for.

Jeff

[jaapv]

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Early failure is a well-known problem with electronic components in general. There is no way that QC can pick it up. That Leica just changes the print instead of seeking out the failed transistor or whatever and soldering in a new one is wholly unsurprising. We are not back in the fifties. 

[jakontil]

To ironically improve performance, they use system on chip aka soc, where every part in integrated and when one chip failed, can be considered the whole system failed, anyhow, changing the whole motherboard is making more sense as a it is almost the whole system

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, SrMi said:

Changing motherboard doesn’t mean that the motherboard is a problem. It means that they either could not locate the exact problem or it may have been the cheapest way to fix your camera. Sometimes, and especially in the early life of a model, the easiest way to fix a camera is not to replace a motherboard but to replace the whole camera.

Absolutely it does. Not following your logic here. Are you saying there are parts of the motherboard they could have replaced instead? I don't think Leica works on their own boards.

This is what I've been saying the freezing thread – many of those with freezing issues need new motherboards or a full exchange. This same problem plagued Canon at the launch of the R5 and main board replacement was the cure.

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Absolutely it does. Not following your logic here. Are you saying there are parts of the motherboard they could have replaced instead? I don't think Leica works on their own boards.

I am only speculating and have no insight into Leica's manufacturing process.
Yes, I assume that the parts on the motherboard are replaceable. As with X1D, some parts on the motherboard may not work within the specs, as promised by the supplier. In that case, the problem gets discovered only after the product launch. If Leica does not work on its boards, it can send the boards to the supplier to fix them. However, replacing the board saves them time.
Sometimes the motherboard is replaced because the issue has yet to be found, but Leica wants the camera to have a working camera ASAP.

[hdmesa]

13 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I am only speculating and have no insight into Leica's manufacturing process.
Yes, I assume that the parts on the motherboard are replaceable. As with X1D, some parts on the motherboard may not work within the specs, as promised by the supplier. In that case, the problem gets discovered only after the product launch. If Leica does not work on its boards, it can send the boards to the supplier to fix them. However, replacing the board saves them time.
Sometimes the motherboard is replaced because the issue has yet to be found, but Leica wants the camera to have a working camera ASAP.

I was just saying that if they replaced the board, that means the board was bad. I think it should be obvious that it's probably not every component on the board at fault. It's like if the water pump on my car engine goes out, we say the water pump is bad even if the issue on the pump was just the seal.

[jaapv]

44 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Yes, I assume that the parts on the motherboard are replaceable.

False assumption. They sometimes are in theory but the specification of the board cannot be guaranteed any more. Example. One of my X-ray machines burned out one small capacitor on the main board. The manufacturer only wanted to replace the whole board @ 3500 Euro., quoting concerns for conformity etc. So I send it to a small repair shop who replaced the 0.95 Euro part for a whopping 75 Euro   However, I hope I will be never found out, as the machine will immediately lose its permission for use, despite the component having nothing to do with the X-Ray output.

 

27 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

it can send the boards to the supplier to fix them

And be laughed right out of the room. They will send new ones and recycle tho old.

27 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

However, replacing the board saves them time

And even more money.  Repairing is far more expensive than replacing. Modern electronic gear is modular.

Apologies for the false quote attribution - this is a forum software bug.

 

[hdmesa]

5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Apologies for the false quote attribution - this is a forum software bug.

No worries

[trickness]

My Q2M mainboard was replaced after just one year. These things happen… I just hope they don’t happen again.

[sdk]

Electronic devices have high failure rates at the beginning of their life and after about 10 years or so. This is not Leica specific, but affects Leica more or less as much as any other manufacturer. Cost is not a guarantee that nothing will go wrong. That is why warranties exist.

[Phil75]

There is a recommendation never to buy a car in the first production year. For quite some years I only buy cars after facelift when the most inconvenient issues are sorted out. Applies to all electronic goods, independently from any industry. So those who go for the very latest, most fanciest stuff in the market, they are the real testers. 

[SrMi]

6 minutes ago, Phil75 said:

There is a recommendation never to buy a car in the first production year. For quite some years I only buy cars after facelift when the most inconvenient issues are sorted out. Applies to all electronic goods, independently from any industry. So those who go for the very latest, most fanciest stuff in the market, they are the real testers. 

It is the banana strategy: the product ripens after it was delivered.

The problem is when the latest model is your only camera and you have sold the previous, stable model.

Edited January 6, 2023 by SrMi

[charlesphoto99]

The motherboard on my Imacon 646 died in 2020, with no replacements to be found.. I did get a good 16 years of fairly heavy use from it, but talk about an expensive boat anchor. 

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[Herr Barnack]

I'm wondering if the cause of the M11 lock ups is due to Leica being sold a load of motherboards that had s significant percentage that were defective unbeknownst to the manufacturer. 

If that is the case, Leica is in for some significant grief that goes with platoons of M11s arriving that need M/B replacement.

The Mother of warranty nightmares...

Edited January 6, 2023 by Herr Barnack

[Kwesi]

17 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

Something happened to my M11, that I never expected. My M11 didn‘t react anymore afer I tried everything you can do to fix issues. I sent it to Leica and they changed the whole Mainboard. After I connected my dealer, he said, that this is not the only M11 with that problem.

And my question is: How can Leica implement such a junky mainboard into a 8.500€ Camera? Sorry to say. I have the 2 5D MK III of Canon. They are both 10 years old. And I never had such a problem with them. Seems that not in every part Leica seems to integrate high quality parts.

Is there really a story here? You bought an item from a reputable manufacturer that failed. The reputable manufacturer fixed it as new free of charge and returned it to you.

Why do you think spending 8.5k euros on an item puts you in some protected class? Life happens my friend, The M11 is not a piece of junk. I happen to own one and am quite happy with mine as are so many others on this forum.