M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Borna]

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1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Would it work better if I applied the strip of tape to my forehead and wrote "dummy" on it?

Thanks. 

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[IkarusJohn]

2 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Would it work better if I applied the strip of tape to my forehead and wrote "dummy" on it?

Only if it had a firmware upgrade …

[jjesp]

Ok, a very long thread. Sad to read that Leica has the exactly same problem with the M11 as with the old Leica Q 116 🙄 I also  have an M10P and a SL2S that seems a bit more stable in that regard. For me it means that I will never upgrade to an M11, since I lost very important images on my old Q in the past. Not going that way again...

But please confirm... The freezing does only happen with an SD card inserted - not with the internal memory only?

Why do the Leica firmware developers not implement a debug log, where the steps prior the freezing are logged? As a software developer, this seems very strange.... Or did they do this? If not, I would think they know what the problem is already - and that it can't be solved with firmware, but is hardware related.

I really don't find it acceptable that a camera in this price range, that has been sold for so long, can have freezing issues like this. Some of you are reporting multiple freezing occurrences in a couple of hours of shooting. This sounds totally crazy.

 

[hdmesa]

46 minutes ago, jjesp said:

...But please confirm... The freezing does only happen with...

There is nothing consistent that anyone has found between us all. If we could reproduce the freeze reliably across all of us with the issue, Leica would have fixed it already.

I would wait for reports from the next firmware update before purchasing.

[RMF]

5 hours ago, fotografr said:

I've used thumb grips on my M9, M9M, M10, M10-P, M10-R and M10M and have not ever had freeze issues with any of them. Why would the M11 be any different? 

I just examined the thumb grip on my M10M and noted that there is a rubber strip along the back side where it presses against the camera body. Therefore, it seems thumb grips would already be insulated. 

Ok, just to appease the ‘engineer in me’ curiosity, I just took a close look at my OEM Leica Thumb support (#24030 made of aluminum and #24015 for the M10 made of brass) which in addition to the rubber strip mentioned, there are additional small rubber bumpers on the top and bottom where it contacts the thumb rest (on the camera body) which should insulate it just as well as black electrical tape.   Wow, I forgot at this point which issue we are even trying to debug 😀.

 

 

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[Smogg]

I am the happy owner of two M11s, on one I almost always have APO50, on the second APO35. I have already sent screenshots with damaged files and freezing from the first camera here. Today I decided to take a walk with the second camera: I successfully took about 4-5 frames, then I got a damaged file and froze, after 3 minutes it froze again. This was the end of my walk, I was furious that I had missed an interesting moment, got into the car and returned home to take a camera from another manufacturer.
Leica, I ask you very much: while you are endlessly searching for the error, return the functionality of my cameras by rolling back the firmware to the previous one.

P.S. I shot on internal memory: it doesn't help

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[jaapv]

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In your case I would simply request Leica to roll back the firmware for you-and not take six months to do so. 

[Smogg]

Just now, jaapv said:

In your case I would simply request Leica to roll back the firmware for you-and not take six months to do so. 

That’s exactly what I’m asking, because it’s so easy for them to do it. Freezes have happened before on older firmware, but not with such frequency and there were no damaged files

[jaapv]

Given that it must be difficult for you to send it to Wetzlar I suggest that you call them a make a plan. Ask for Mr Kaufman ( no, not THAT Kaufmann, but from Customer Service.) 

[Smogg]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

Given that it must be difficult for you to send it to Wetzlar I suggest that you call them a make a plan. Ask for Mr Kaufman ( no, not THAT Kaufmann, but from Customer Service.) 

I wrote to support asking them to roll back the firmware. I'll see what they answer. And then I will decide what to do depending on their answer. A rollback will suit me quite well, otherwise I will try to return both cameras and get the money back, so I haven’t been able to use the cameras normally for 3 months now and it’s not my fault

[bkphoto]

Leica has to understand they’re doing irreparable harm to their brand. It doesn’t feel like they’re treating this with any urgency whatsoever.

[jaapv]

51 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I wrote to support asking them to roll back the firmware. I'll see what they answer. And then I will decide what to do depending on their answer. A rollback will suit me quite well, otherwise I will try to return both cameras and get the money back, so I haven’t been able to use the cameras normally for 3 months now and it’s not my fault

In my experience personal contact through the phone with Customer Service works best. 

[jaapv]

42 minutes ago, bkphoto said:

Leica has to understand they’re doing irreparable harm to their brand. It doesn’t feel like they’re treating this with any urgency whatsoever.

I agree that it is not doing Leica any good at all But I suspect that the delay in offering a solution is caused by the difficulty of the problem rather than nonchalance. 

[Smogg]

15 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I agree that it is not doing Leica any good at all But I suspect that the delay in offering a solution is caused by the difficulty of the problem rather than nonchalance. 

I understand that some problems may be difficult to identify and resolve promptly. Just for such cases, they should release urgent firmware with a rollback to the previous state, which can be installed by those who are now virtually deprived of the opportunity to use their favorite cameras

[maidenfan84]

16 hours ago, bkphoto said:

Leica has to understand they’re doing irreparable harm to their brand. It doesn’t feel like they’re treating this with any urgency whatsoever.

I'm starting to think they're taking the approach of "if we pretend it doesn't exist, it'll go away on its own". That tactic may work for a very large company, very large product, etc but when you're a niche company selling a niche product, word travels extremely fast about issues/defects and it certainly doesn't help anything at all. If they're worried about hurting the 'perfection' of their image and brand, I think in 2024 more people would be forgiving if they outright admitted there's issues and they're fixing them, then to just keep kicking the can down the road and looking the other way. I believe modern consumers are more forgiving when a brand/company admits a fault and addresses it, but more punishing when the consumer knows the brand/company isn't being straight with them as compared to consumers in the past. 

[bkphoto]

16 hours ago, jaapv said:

I agree that it is not doing Leica any good at all But I suspect that the delay in offering a solution is caused by the difficulty of the problem rather than nonchalance. 

Then they should have a software team capable of delivering software for $10k cameras.

[Smogg]

1 hour ago, maidenfan84 said:

I'm starting to think they're taking the approach of "if we pretend it doesn't exist, it'll go away on its own". That tactic may work for a very large company, very large product, etc but when you're a niche company selling a niche product, word travels extremely fast about issues/defects and it certainly doesn't help anything at all. If they're worried about hurting the 'perfection' of their image and brand, I think in 2024 more people would be forgiving if they outright admitted there's issues and they're fixing them, then to just keep kicking the can down the road and looking the other way. I believe modern consumers are more forgiving when a brand/company admits a fault and addresses it, but more punishing when the consumer knows the brand/company isn't being straight with them as compared to consumers in the past. 

At the moment, their main product - the icon(Leica M11) - is not functional. This may be a fatal flaw in the design of the device or weak software, although what is surprising to me is that other products work fine, although they require much more complex electronics, software and computing power, since they also need to autofocus and detect eyes/faces . My guess is that Panasonic engineers are responsible for the Q and SL software, and Leica engineers work exclusively on M cameras. Therefore, there is such a difference in reliability and quality

[Smogg]

There is one other bug I haven't mentioned before that is common to both of my M11 cameras. When Continues High Speed mode is selected and you press the shutter button and then release it, the camera may behave in different ways:

1. Normal behavior - the camera takes pictures while you hold the button.
2. Incorrect behavior - after you release the button, the camera, by inertia, takes another 3-4 frames and accordingly it is not available for other operations.

I, as a programmer, believe that the most likely hypothesis explaining this behavior is poor architecture/optimization of the built-in program or incorrectly chosen slow toolkit (Python/Java), part of the code should have been optimized by rewriting it in C++. If my hypothesis is correct, then other problems (damaged files and freezes) become understandable, since there is simply not enough processor power to execute poorly optimized program code, so parallel processes conflict, unable to complete on time. The more you demand from the camera (continues high speed, visoflex, liveview), the worse it will perform.

Edited March 7, 2024 by Smogg

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[lct]

1 hour ago, Smogg said:

after you release the button, the camera, by inertia, takes another 3-4 frames

I tried as you invited me elsewhere but i don't notice such an inertia on my M11. I wouldn't expect it to work like my Sony but i would not keep it if it failed like yours.

[Smogg]

8 minutes ago, lct said:

I tried as you invited me elsewhere but i don't notice such an inertia on my M11. I wouldn't expect it to work like my Sony but i would not keep it if it failed like yours.

This behavior does not always occur, but quite regularly