M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[IkarusJohn]

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1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Yes and No. It doesn't hurt to rule out known incompatible memory cards (Sony Tough is notorious for problems) and/or SD cards with bad sectors (which can be fixed with an overwrite format with the official "SD Card Formatter" Utility). That said, these freezes on startup/shutdown have not once been helped by the usual advice, including memory card issues, and that has been proven out over the course of this long thread. No matter what was tried, the freezing always resumes. @lct and others had their freezes fixed with 1.6.1. I, too, have asked they move along and let the rest of us continue but to no avail. But honestly, your relentless responses are just increasing the distraction, IMO. There is no reasoning with those that think they can solve this issue with ides proven to not solve the issue and there seems to be no stopping them from continually trying.

Reading the last few pages, it would. Be easy to forget that this is Leica’s problem, not the problem of those who bought in good faith.

[hdmesa]

@Carlinski putting you on ignore. Enjoy your trolling!

[jaapv]

He is banned…

[Jeff S]

57 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

If I had seen them I would have  Just today received my fourth M11, hence my recent renewed interest in this thread. So far no freezes. June 2023 manufacture date with 1.6.2.

You can still report the two posts I linked (hit the report button, top right each post), and ask mods to move them. 

BTW, you can likewise report posts you suspect are trolls; mods will investigate and deal with them (as they did here). 

Jeff

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

You can still report the two posts I linked (hit the report button, top right each post), and ask mods to move them. 

BTW, you can likewise report posts you suspect are trolls; mods will investigate and deal with them (as they did here). 

Jeff

Yes, thanks. I did request one of those posts to be moved to the Mono-specific freezing thread, but the other was a response to someone asking if M11M had the same issue, so that makes sense to stay here.

I do report posts if it starts looking like we have a new troll account 👍

[lct]

3 hours ago, hdmesa said:

[..] There is no reasoning with those that think they can solve this issue with ides proven to not solve the issue and there seems to be no stopping them from continually trying [...].

Especially when such so-called proven ideas have not been proven at all. The fact that freezes may happen when no SD card is inserted does not exclude that SD cards may be the culprit or one of the culprits when they are inserted in the camera. It was obvious before firmware 1.6.1 when i could provoke freezes at will with some of my UHS2 cards. In complex matters where several causes are at play, let alone unknown ones, nobody can tell that one cause alone is the culprit. Removing possible causes can only be good then. Among these possible causes i still class, unless the opposite is proven, not only SD cards like Sony Tough ones but also conflicting situations like selecting lens detection auto for uncoded lenses but i won't repeat my mantras ad nauseam.

[jaapv]

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27 (!) posts  removed and two trolls banned. Please consider that  even moderators only  have 24 hours in each day and do not feed  the trolls, report them.

[hdmesa]

28 minutes ago, lct said:

Especially when such so-called proven ideas have not been proven at all. The fact that freezes may happen when no SD card is inserted does not exclude that SD cards may be the culprit or one of the culprits when they are inserted in the camera. It was obvious before firmware 1.6.1 when i could provoke freezes at will with some of my UHS2 cards. In complex matters where several causes are at play, let alone unknown ones, nobody can tell that one cause alone is the culprit. Removing possible causes can only be good then. Among these possible causes i still class, unless the opposite is proven, not only SD cards like Sony Tough ones but also conflicting situations like selecting lens detection auto for uncoded lenses but i won't repeat my mantras ad nauseam.

It is proven as far as we can here that the freezes at startup are not caused solely by the SD cards, yes.

[hdmesa]

9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

27 (!) posts  removed and two trolls banned. Please consider that  even moderators only  have 24 hours in each day, and do not feed  the trolls, report them.

Thank you. I let them get the better of me. Won't happen again.

[lct]

26 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

It is proven as far as we can here that the freezes at startup are not caused solely by the SD cards, yes.

I have not been brave enough to buy another Sony Tough card under firmware 1.6.1 but i don't recall of any test of that card on the M11 since then. I may be wrong though but in any case, as you stress it yourself, solely is the key word. In matters where several causes can be at play it is wise to exclude all possible causes, as far as possible, and it is the reason of my empirical tips that are so appealing to supporters of the faulty hardware theory .

Edited August 25, 2023 by lct

[hdmesa]

46 minutes ago, lct said:

I have not been brave enough to buy another Sony Tough card under firmware 1.6.1 but i don't recall of any test of that card on the M11 since then. I may be wrong though but in any case, as you stress it yourself, solely is the key word. In matters where several causes can be at play it is wise to exclude all possible causes, as far as possible, and it is the reason of my empirical tips that are so appealing to supporters of the faulty hardware theory .

The new M11 I just received today is so far doing ok – no lockups or palpitations. I'll breathe a sigh of relief only after a few days, though. Last night in preparation for the new M11, I lined up all my SD cards and ran them through the SD Card Formatter with the overwrite option – so exactly what you're saying, which is trying to rule out a card with bad sectors, which the software fixes by excluding any from the directory of available space. I'm starting off with the Delkin Black 64gb (fastest) in the new M11 because it has been the card that worked flawlessly in my M11M. After the full format of all cards, I ran all of them through the M11M – took a few shots with each and made sure they didn't lock up the camera at startup. I'm going to be spending time with each on the M11M to certify them to myself that I can use them in that camera, starting with a SanDisk 64gb (fastest), then moving to the 128gb (fastest) version, then on to the slower Sony Tough cards of which I have several. These same Sony cards wouldn't even allow my old M10M camera I used to own to boot up, and they would occasionally lock up my Q2 camera if I filled the buffer up too quickly with rapid shooting. The same Sony cards have worked flawlessly in all the SL cameras I've had, which are two SL2-S cameras and one SL2. So card compatibility is real thing and varies by Leica model. But with regard to the M11s that freeze at startup, we haven't been able to find a card-related cause.

[lct]

I've never got freezes at startup with any camera but the M11 with cards not formatted with SD Card Formatter so far. Formatting them with  SD Card Formatter fixed the issue before firmware 1.6.1 so i go on doing the same under that firmware. Would be interesting that i try a Sony Tough card with and without SD Card Formatter but the first time i used that card i had the feeling that the camera was bricked so i'm not encouraged to repeat the same experience now that the camera works perfectly.

[Malvolio]

4 hours ago, lct said:

I've never got freezes at startup with any camera but the M11 with cards not formatted with SD Card Formatter so far. Formatting them with  SD Card Formatter fixed the issue before firmware 1.6.1 so i go on doing the same under that firmware. Would be interesting that i try a Sony Tough card with and without SD Card Formatter but the first time i used that card i had the feeling that the camera was bricked so i'm not encouraged to repeat the same experience now that the camera works perfectly.

I’m just curious this thread is 80 plus pages and largely because you keep responding and/or perpetuating the topic. Why?

[lucerne]

malvolio

LCT is just curious.😸

 

[lct]

21 minutes ago, Malvolio said:

I’m just curious this thread is 80 plus pages and largely because you keep responding and/or perpetuating the topic. Why?

Not sure i'm that important but i wonder myself sometimes It's perhaps that i like that camera and i'm convinced that in most cases the freezes can be avoided.

[hdmesa]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Not sure i'm that important but i wonder myself sometimes It's perhaps that i like that camera and i'm convinced that in most cases the freezes can be avoided.

If you had gotten one of the units that freeze on startup that wasn't solved by 1.6.1, you would think differently. Having lockups at least once a day, more often two to three times a day is infuriating. It would make you worry that one of those freezes will be its last. It's especially frustrating since many if not most of us did go through all the "try-this try-that" from this thread ad nauseam. 

[jaapv]

Can we please stop going around in circles? It only leads to irritation, which will result in locking the thread. Already I have had to delete  posts.

Take it from me, as an outsider. All that can be said has been  said multiple times.  Please wait for new developments before jumping on the merry-go-round.

[hdmesa]

 

Something new that can be discussed: firmware 1.6.2

1.6.2 has been coming pre-installed on all recent new M11 and M11M. Leica told me this was to accommodate a new hardware component and is unrelated to performance. They didn’t give any other details.

Has anyone who purchased an M11 with 1.6.2 had a freeze? I have an M11 made 6/6/23 with 1.6.2 which has had no freezes so far using the same SD cards and accessories as my three previous M11s that did have freezes.

[lct]

Do you have the feeling that some parts of the later camera are not the same as on the earlier ones?

 

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[RMF]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

 

Something new that can be discussed: firmware 1.6.2

1.6.2 has been coming pre-installed on all recent new M11 and M11M. Leica told me this was to accommodate a new hardware component and is unrelated to performance. They didn’t give any other details.

Has anyone who purchased an M11 with 1.6.2 had a freeze? I have an M11 made 6/6/23 with 1.6.2 which has had no freezes so far using the same SD cards and accessories as my three previous M11s that did have freezes.

Interesting… this is all conjecture but perhaps Leica at this stage of the M11’s lifecycle they might be going through a hardware cost reduction exercise (where hardware components might be coming down in price or alternative components are becoming available, or vice versa in that some original components are no longer available or have gotten more expensive). It’s an interesting decision to have it supported by a unique firmware version though…   For those with 1.6.2, if you had to reset your camera and reinstall firmware, where would you get a copy of 1.6.2?

.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by RMF