Photoworks Posted January 8, 2023 Share #661 Posted January 8, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 hours ago, Qlan said: The issue is not easy to reproduce perfectly. Sure, if you spent days and weeks between each step, maybe you can narrow down some hypothesis but otherwise just enjoy the camera and don’t bother trying to create the freezes. You may not get any for a few weeks. In my case, I change lenses maybe 3-5 times a day and turn the camera on and off maybe 25-40 times during a full shooting day (both are non Leica lenses) and the camera freezes about 1-3 times a day, and they all happen during startup, and more often after changing a lens than not. maybe Leica programmers are not testing the camera enough with non Leica lenses?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2023 Posted January 8, 2023 Hi Photoworks, Take a look here M11 freeze issues [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Photoworks Posted January 8, 2023 Share #662 Posted January 8, 2023 17 hours ago, lct said: If you have old user profiles you may wish to update them under firmware 1.6.0.0. Did work for me as my M11 did not freeze since then. Also you may wish to avoid Sony Tough cards. That is something that should be done on any camera from Leica. SL2, Q2 had issues with saved old profile with new firmware. Do yourself a favor and create new profile after reset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2023 Share #663 Posted January 8, 2023 Hard to see how that could cause software lockups, seeing that the lenses have no electronic connection the body Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 8, 2023 Share #664 Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, jaapv said: Hard to see how that could cause software lockups, seeing that the lenses have no electronic connection the body Those are user profiles, not lens profiles, that must be updated under firmware 1.6.0.0. I say "must" because it fixed the problem for me but i have no idea how it works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2023 Share #665 Posted January 8, 2023 The poster is talking about lenses. That has nothing to do with user profiles which are simply menu settings stored in memory 1 hour ago, Photoworks said: maybe Leica programmers are not testing the camera enough with non Leica lenses?!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 8, 2023 Share #666 Posted January 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, jaapv said: The poster is talking about lenses. That has nothing to do with user profiles which are simply menu settings stored in memory’s. We were referring to two different posts of the same poster apparently. Uncoded lenses are a topic that would deserve a separate thread IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2023 Share #667 Posted January 8, 2023 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not really, they cannot cause software problems. However, even user profiles are quite unlikely to be problematic. They are just a storage of menu settings. The problem will most likely be in a combination of menu settings and there are thousands of permutations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELAN Posted January 8, 2023 Share #668 Posted January 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, jaapv said: The problem will most likely be in a combination of menu settings and there are thousands of permutations. The problem is most likely a race condition, which is why no one can replicate it consistently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 8, 2023 Share #669 Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, jpark114 said: From time to time, I have to take out the battery then re-insert it in order to get out of a lock-up. Although this is much improved compared to pre 1.6, it's still there. I have tried many memory cards, including Sandisk UHS-I and II, and to me, II with 300 speed is the least problematic one. Based on my observation, the problem often occurs whenever I try to operate the cameray(push button, turn dial etc) while the red led lamp(indicating writing to memory) is lit. Regardless of which camera I'm using, I have always thought it a good idea to not diddle with the buttons/dials, etc. while the camera is thinking. When it locks up, that is the camera's way of saying "HOLY MOSES!! Will you just relax and give me a minute??" Edited January 8, 2023 by Herr Barnack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpark114 Posted January 8, 2023 Share #670 Posted January 8, 2023 17 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said: Regardless of which camera I'm using, I have always thought it a good idea to not diddle with the buttons/dials, etc. while the camera is thinking. When it locks up, that is the camera's way of saying "HOLY MOSES!! Will you just relax and give me a minute??" I know that as well. The problem is, I'm being used to how a fast camera operates (my other camera being Canon R3) that I often accidentally operate M11 without knowing it's blinking. Also, most of this happens when I turn on the camera. M11 is, comparatively, slow to turn on, and when it turns on, it always reads cards somehow. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2023 Share #671 Posted January 8, 2023 55 minutes ago, ELAN said: The problem is most likely a race condition, which is why no one can replicate it consistently. does that mean that the choice of SD card (read-write speed can influence timing) may be contributing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henners Posted January 8, 2023 Share #672 Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) I wonder if the storage option might be the cause? I've changed mine recently to 'IN+SD DNG+JPG first on IN' and haven't experienced any lockups (possibly as the SD card doesn't get hit on this setting until the internal memory is full). For those that see lockups, what storage option are you using? Edited January 8, 2023 by Henners Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lluvia Posted January 8, 2023 Share #673 Posted January 8, 2023 Hello everyone, I was going to order a M11 this week and then I found this group 🙁. So how bad is it? has something change since the M11 release (firmware wise?). I had a M10 a few years back and it was a nightmare, the camera froze a lot. I hoped Leica had stepped up in that area. With the M10 I send the camera to Wetslar 3 times, each time it took more than a month and the camera came back the same.. At the end the guy of the Leica store change my M10 for a use M10, but glitches free. So know I'm a bit concern Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakontil Posted January 8, 2023 Share #674 Posted January 8, 2023 51 minutes ago, Henners said: I wonder if the storage option might be the cause? I've changed mine recently to 'IN+SD DNG+JPG first on IN' and haven't experienced any lockups (possibly as the SD card doesn't get hit on this setting until the internal memory is full). For those that see lockups, what storage option are you using? As far as remember there were reports when freezes happen only using INT storage so yeah can rule that out 33 minutes ago, lluvia said: Hello everyone, I was going to order a M11 this week and then I found this group 🙁. So how bad is it? has something change since the M11 release (firmware wise?). I had a M10 a few years back and it was a nightmare, the camera froze a lot. I hoped Leica had stepped up in that area. With the M10 I send the camera to Wetslar 3 times, each time it took more than a month and the camera came back the same.. At the end the guy of the Leica store change my M10 for a use M10, but glitches free. So know I'm a bit concern im sure you are in great dilemma, but im certain out of the reported issues, there are more units of M11 that may be not causing enough problems to report, however if you need to get one, make sure from a reputable dealer which you can deal easily should problem exist 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henners Posted January 8, 2023 Share #675 Posted January 8, 2023 It's not really a problem for most people I don't think, and the freezing doesn't happen often so for most of us it's just a very minor occasional inconvenience. I've had freezes on my Ricoh GR3 cameras too and they've never really bothered me massively either. The M11 having the quick release battery means it's super fast to reset it if it does happen. Hopefully just a firmware thing that will be fixed soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELAN Posted January 8, 2023 Share #676 Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, jaapv said: does that mean that the choice of SD card (read-write speed can influence timing) may be contributing? I doubt it. I know a lot of people feel the SD card type may contribute to M11 freezes but I personally don't think so. I use mostly internal storage and I had freezes. It's possible that writing data to storage is one contributing component of race condition that occurs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2023 Share #677 Posted January 8, 2023 Everybody is barking up the firmware tree, but on the 240 similar freezes were due to heat problems in warm weather and continuous EVF use. Any ideas there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 8, 2023 Share #678 Posted January 8, 2023 13 minutes ago, ELAN said: I doubt it. I know a lot of people feel the SD card type may contribute to M11 freezes but I personally don't think so. I use mostly internal storage and I had freezes. It's possible that writing data to storage is one contributing component of race condition that occurs. I bet you still had the SD card in when you where shooting to IN memory!?! The camera still had to record the presents and make the card accessible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 8, 2023 Share #679 Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, lluvia said: Hello everyone, I was going to order a M11 this week and then I found this group 🙁. So how bad is it? has something change since the M11 release (firmware wise?). I had a M10 a few years back and it was a nightmare, the camera froze a lot. I hoped Leica had stepped up in that area. With the M10 I send the camera to Wetslar 3 times, each time it took more than a month and the camera came back the same.. At the end the guy of the Leica store change my M10 for a use M10, but glitches free. So know I'm a bit concern Just keep in mid that the people complaining are always the loudest! to top this many on this forum complaint about the M11 with out even using it. I was reading in the Wetzlar news that the M11 was the most successful digital M camera to date, maybe it is part of the fact that you can buy it in most store. You don't have to wait months like the M10. I am very happy with my M11, much more useful then M10-R that just sits there. their maybe are few bugs, but it is minimal at this point, and probably solved in the next FW update, they seam to be only software issues. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELAN Posted January 8, 2023 Share #680 Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jaapv said: Everybody is barking up the firmware tree, but on the 240 similar freezes were due to heat problems in warm weather and continuous EVF use. Any ideas there? My M240 froze similarly to the way the M10 and now the M11 freeze. I’ve never used an EVF on any camera and I usually shoot at temperatures below 30C and never felt my Ms getting warm. As I recall the M240 freezes were resolved over multiple firmware releases. It kept getting better (fewer freezes) but took years to finally (almost) fully resolve. Race conditions occur when multiple pieces of software (aka threads) run concurrently and are accessing shared resources, like storage, or their timing happens in a way not accounted for by the software developers. They are notoriously difficult to debug because we’re taking milliseconds. Some of my freezes occurred with the red LED on, which is why I think it’s quite possible that the storage writing thread is a contributing factor. Edited January 8, 2023 by ELAN Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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