M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Qlan]

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21 minutes ago, TripH said:

There are some quick things you can try (if you haven't already): resetting the camera, reloading the firmware, etc. BTW: just because the camera is 'new' doesn't mean that it has the latest firmware -- you might just check that...

Yes, firmware is the first thing I check and update whenever I buy a new hardware (I'm a software engineer). I just did a full reset and reformatted SD card and internal memory (did format many times but freezes still happened). Set all the settings again manually. Will see how it goes. Right now charging the battery for the first time (after the initial full charge).

I really want to make this work. I love everything else about the M11. I'm even okay with the occasional freeze, but this seems too excessive. But maybe if I use the camera normally (not turning it on and off 40 times a day), it wouldn't feel excessive...

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[TheEyesHaveIt]

In your case, given the frequency of freeze ups, perhaps Leica SF will swap the camera. In my case, where I guess you could say the freeze is "rare" (though I've not had the camera for that long), I hope it is fixable via a software update. I'm using a 6 bit coded Summilux 35 FLE. I would consider two freeze ups in ~7 days still too much for a $10k camera though.

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, Qlan said:

Yes, firmware is the first thing I check and update whenever I buy a new hardware (I'm a software engineer). I just did a full reset and reformatted SD card and internal memory (did format many times but freezes still happened). Set all the settings again manually. Will see how it goes. Right now charging the battery for the first time (after the initial full charge).

I really want to make this work. I love everything else about the M11. I'm even okay with the occasional freeze, but this seems too excessive. But maybe if I use the camera normally (not turning it on and off 40 times a day), it wouldn't feel excessive...

Can you make a list of settings you use when you get the "Freeze"

[Qlan]

Ok, encountered another freeze since I reset the camera. It happened at startup time. Could go to quick menu and pictures review but pressing the shutter doesn't do anything and live view completely freezes the camera.

What changed compared to previously:

• only one profile, Lens Detection set to Off
• camera and display standby disabled (previously I set both to 5 minutes even though I never let the camera go to standby, just a precaution in case I forgot to turn it off)
• old Sandisk Extreme Pro card 95Mb/s 64Gb UHS-I (previously Sandisk Extreme Pro 200Mb/s 256GB UHS-I)

Full settings (since @Photoworks asked)

Page 1

• Lens detection: Off
• Drive mode: Single
• Exposure Metering: Multi-field
• Exposure Compensation: 0EV
• M-ISO: 12500
• Auto ISO Settings: max ISO: 8000, SS limit: 1/(2f), max ISO (flash) : 200, SS limit (flash) : 1/f

Page 2

• White Balance: Auto
• File Format: DNG
• DNG Resolution: Large
• JPG Settings: Max JPG resolution: Large, Noise reduction: 0, Film Style: STD
• Auto review: 3s
• Noise reduction: On

Page 3

• Shutter type: Hybrid
• Flash Settings: Flash exp. comp: 0EV, flash sync: End, SS limit (flash) : 1/f
• Digital zoom: Off
• Perspective control: Off
• Storage Options: DNG+JPG on IN=SD
• Customize Control: Edit favorites: M-ISO, Film Style, User Profile, Leica FOTOS, Date&Time, Customize Wheel: Exp. Comp, Backside LED: On, Bottom LED: On

Page 4

• Capture Assistants: Info profiles: Only profile 1 is set: Info bars: on, Grid: Off, Clipping: Off, Focus Peaking: On, Red, High, Level gauge: On, Histogram: On, Exposure Preview: Shutter Button, Focus Aid: Automatic
• User Profile: Only 1
• Display settings: LCD brightness: Auto, EVF <-> LCD: Auto, Eye sensor sensitivity (grayed out) : High, EVF brightness (grayed out) : 0
• Leica FOTOS: Wi-Fi: Off, Wi-Fi sleep mode: After 5 min
• Camera settings: Power saving mode: Camera standby: Off, Display standby: Off, USB charging: Off, USB mode: Apple MFi, Wi-Fi band: 5Ghz, File name: L*******

Page 5

• Camera information: Copyright info: Off
• Language: English

It took much longer to trigger the freeze this time, I was getting hopeful it was "fixed"... Will continue to test and report back the next few days.

[Qlan]

Wasn't able to freeze the camera since the previous comment, until...

I turned the camera on while the lens cap was on. The mechanical shutter opened but the viewfinder LED display was off. Clicked on menu and it shows "No lens" detected (the previous setting I used was manual M 28mm f/2). Same freeze as before: shutter button doesn't work, and going to live view shows a black image and completely freezes the camera.

I was able to inconsistently reproduce freezes when having the lens cap on. Wasn't able to get "No lens" again, but was able to freeze the camera on startup a few times and one time when turning off the camera (orange led stay on).

So it still seems to point to Lens Detection in a way or another.

[lct]

2 hours ago, Qlan said:

So it still seems to point to Lens Detection in a way or another.

Strange... Works fine for me. Just a question. You have set your user profile with lens detection off if i understand well. Then, do you enter the name of a Leica lens through the menu and what CV lens is it equivalent to? Asking this as i suspect contradictory orders given to the camera but I don't see which ones. 

[Boyhood]

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Received M11 on October 7, 2022. Unfortunately, this (Freeze Error & Shutter not working) has happened since the weekend when I first started shooting, and it's still going on.

The Leica Customer Center (Germany) recommended using the UHS-II / 300MB/s SD card. I used two SD cards in Lexar's UHS-II and both have used SanDisk ExtremePro UHS-II 300MB/s, 128GB since the problem continued. However, the 'Freeze' error and the shutter button cannot be pressed still occurred.

The Leica Warranty Center in my town recommended, "When the error happened, take a video." So I filmed it and put it on YouTube.

It's amazing that the forum's issue runs to over 15 pages. And my problem hasn't been solved yet. For your information, this error also occurred when I removed SD card and took a photo with the internal memory. And I tried SD card format and M11 device format several times (error not solved).

Now, following the advice of this forum articles, i'll try UHS-I SD card (SanDisk Extreme 150MB/s, 64GB).

For your information, I used the M10 and M10-R Black Paint Finish, and I still use the M10-R together.

M10 used the SD card which is slower than M11, and there was nothing wrong. Similarly, M10-R has not experienced this frequent Freezing error.

 

The setting of my M11 where this error occurred is as follows.

[Leica M11 received]
October 7th, 2022 (Fri)

[Frequent freezing / Shutter not working after start] 
Since October 8th (Sat), when the actual shooting began, it has been consistent. 

[M11 Device Settings] 
Firmware version: 1.5.0.1

[Lenses during the error] 
Leica Summicron-M F/2 50mm (6bit)
Leica Summarit-M 50 mm f/2.5 (6 bit, used purchase in Leica Store in Seoul)

[SD card type and M11 storage options set]  

* Memory Card 1: Lexar SDXC 1667x 250MB/s, UHS-II (256GB)
Storage options: SD card priority recording (DNG + JPG first on SD)

* Memory Card 2: Lexar SDXC 2000x 300MB/s, UHS-II (128GB)
Storage options: SD card priority recording (DNG + JPG first on SD)

* Memory Card 3: SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC 300MB/s UHS-II (128GB)
Storage options: SD card priority recording (DNG + JPG first on SD)

Edited November 7, 2022 by Boyhood

[LUF Admin]

On 11/3/2022 at 9:48 AM, Jewl said:

"funny" that this forum lists the mentioned SD card in their "SD Card buying guide" on the first place. Maybe this should be changed or at least mentioned, the SD card might lead to issues in the M11...

I have forwarded your feedback to our partner (Speicherkarten-Guru) asking them to remove it from the selection for now.

On 11/4/2022 at 6:34 PM, hdmesa said:

Nothing more than an advertisement and should be removed from the forum, IMO.

It's a bit more than an advertisement. The data are provided by a partner company (Speicherkarten-Guru / VTN) who are testing the performance of each SD card with each camera listed in the recommendations.

Andreas

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, LUF Admin said:

I have forwarded your feedback to our partner (Speicherkarten-Guru) asking them to remove it from the selection for now.

It's a bit more than an advertisement. The data are provided by a partner company (Speicherkarten-Guru / VTN) who are testing the performance of each SD card with each camera listed in the recommendations.

Andreas

On my phone, all I see is a list of cards tested for speed. I don’t see a list of compatible Leica cameras. It wouldn’t have taken them long to experience lockups using the Sony Tough cards in any M10 variant. They were also unreliable in my M11 and would occasionally lockup in my Q2. 

[Photoworks]

8 hours ago, Qlan said:

Wasn't able to freeze the camera since the previous comment, until...

I turned the camera on while the lens cap was on. The mechanical shutter opened but the viewfinder LED display was off. Clicked on menu and it shows "No lens" detected (the previous setting I used was manual M 28mm f/2). Same freeze as before: shutter button doesn't work, and going to live view shows a black image and completely freezes the camera.

I was able to inconsistently reproduce freezes when having the lens cap on. Wasn't able to get "No lens" again, but was able to freeze the camera on startup a few times and one time when turning off the camera (orange led stay on).

So it still seems to point to Lens Detection in a way or another.

In the past I have read people having issues with not coded lenses. freezing with older and non Leica lenses.

you would have to search the forum about that.

I used the Summicron 28 mm and the 28mm ULTRON II and have not be able to freeze. I don't use lens caps !

 

[lct]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:39 AM, lct said:

[...] You have set your user profile with lens detection off if i understand well. Then, do you enter the name of a Leica lens through the menu and what CV lens is it equivalent to? Asking this as i suspect contradictory orders given to the camera but I don't see which ones. 

Bump to @Qlan with my apologies if this question is disturbing in any way.

[Qlan]

On 11/7/2022 at 2:39 AM, lct said:

You have set your user profile with lens detection off if i understand well. Then, do you enter the name of a Leica lens through the menu and what CV lens is it equivalent to? Asking this as i suspect contradictory orders given to the camera but I don't see which ones. 

Wait, are you saying there's a difference from first setting the Lens Detection to Off, then select a lens in the Manual M setting vs Setting the Lens Detection to Auto then select a lens?

According to the manual (page 38), it doesn't make a difference, the camera will switch to Auto whenever it detects a 6-bit code (which, as I said before, means that lens detection is never off and is always trying to read a code since there's no other way the body can know when a lens has been mounted).

When I set Lens Detection to Off, I got less freezes but still one (same failure mode). So I switched it back to my Manual M profile.

Also, since I reset the camera settings completely, I am experiencing way less freezes (except when I got many in a short span when I had the lens cap on on startup)... Fingers crossed.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Qlan

[lct]

26 minutes ago, Qlan said:

Wait, are you saying there's a difference from first setting the Lens Detection to Off, then select a lens in the Manual M setting vs Setting the Lens Detection to Auto then select a lens?

I was just asking if you entered the name of a Leica lens through the menu and what CV lens it was equivalent to. I was just wondering, and still do, if contradictory orders have been given to the camera. You would not be the first to do that. At the time of the M8 or M9, Zeiss used to advise ZM users to code some 35mm ZM lenses as 28mm Leica ones among other codings. This way, the camera had to resolve a conflict between two orders, one coming from the flange of the lens (35/135) and the other from the Zeiss advice (28). The camera is supposed to manage that sort of conflict so i wondered if some faulty management was not at play here. I may be completely wrong of course but to know it i need to understand what you did sorry .

[Qlan]

I use Lens detection: Manual M -> 28 f/2 ASPH. 11604 for the CV 28mm f/2 Ultron type II

and Lens detection: Manual M -> 50 f/2 11819/... for the CV 50mm f/2 APO-LANTHAR

When I change lenses (for example from the 28 to the 50), I turn the camera off while having the 28 manual lens. Then I change the lens and start the camera. At this moment, yes the camera will have contradictory information between the frame lines and the lens setting. Then I switch profiles to the 50mm one.

But most of the freezes I experienced at startup weren't when I changed lenses.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Qlan

[lct]

1 minute ago, Qlan said:

I use Lens detection: Manual M -> 28 f/2 ASPH. 11604 for the CV 28mm f/2 Ultron type II

and Lens detection: Manual M -> 50 f/2 11819/... for the CV 50mm f/2 APO-LANTHAR

I see no conflict here. You may wish to try the Summicron 28 code number (11604) for the Ultron. It is my own setting but i'm not sure it can fix your issues in any way.

[lct]

1 hour ago, lct said:

You may wish to try the Summicron 28 code number (11604) for the Ultron

Which you did sorry so there's nothing i can add to help for now. Hope your problems will be solved quickly. 

[Qlan]

18 minutes ago, lct said:

Which you did sorry so there's nothing i can add to help for now. Hope your problems will be solved quickly. 

No worries, thanks for taking the time to investigate my settings. As I said, freezes are less frequent now that I have fully reset the camera. I also formatted the SD card with the SD Card Memory Formatter in case that helps. Hopefully the next firmware (which should be released soon?) will further improve reliability. I'll be taking the M11 on a big trip in December and I'll bring a Fuji X100V as backup, so even if it bricks (which is much more worrisome than occasional freezes), I'll be covered. So exited not to have to bring my big Canon 5D mark IV + lenses!

I contacted Leica's customer support and they opened a ticket with the dev team. I'll update this thread if I get an answer.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Qlan

[Kwesi]

On 11/6/2022 at 3:12 AM, Qlan said:

I have two Voigtlander lenses, I set lens detection to manual M and have one profile for each lens. When I change lenses, I switch to the corresponding profile and thought this would work fine. Which is the case most of the time. But it seems like lens detection is never switched off, even if the "Lens Detection" setting is set to Off or Manual M/R. The camera will try to detect the lens every time a picture is taken (and at startup/waking up time, and maybe also every X seconds when the camera is on). Most of the time, this works fine, the lens setting is unchanged. But other times, the camera fails to detect the lens and freezes (maybe that causes bug #2). Similarly at startup time, sometimes lens detection fails and the camera freezes (bug #1).

Have you tried not using any profiles? when you mount your non coded lens, just select the appropriate Leica lens from the drop down menu. you should only have two  - then proceed as normal. see if that takes care of the freezing. 

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[Qlan]

12 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Have you tried not using any profiles? when you mount your non coded lens, just select the appropriate Leica lens from the drop down menu. you should only have two  - then proceed as normal. see if that takes care of the freezing. 

The issue is that most of my freezes happen at startup, before I have time to change profiles or do anything. So I don't see how using profiles or not changes anything. Or are you suggesting not using profiles at all and just have the default profile and change settings on it and not save them? That would be pretty limiting IMO.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Qlan

[Kwesi]

5 minutes ago, Qlan said:

are you suggesting not using profiles at all and just have the default profile and change settings on it and not save them?

Yes. 

if you just have the 2 lenses then im not sure you are saving any time by manually selecting a profile for each lens when the M11 allows you to only show your two manual lens choices. I m not saying this will fix your problem but it seems you are adding an unnecessary complexity here. I remember creating user profiles for lenses years ago when I had the m9 and had to wade through an endless list of lenses but those days are behind us now