M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Smogg]

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1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

Better to make it automatically "eject" the card at power off and "remount" the card at every power on. Better to have a delay than a crash.

Why do they need such complexity if they just need to allow a rollback to 1.6.1 for those who want it? It won't cost them a cent

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[hdmesa]

7 hours ago, Edax said:

Thanks for added clarity 😀.

Now it would be really interesting to hear results coming from M11's which are not yet on firmware 2.0.2. 

So owners of M11's with FW1.6.1, FW1.7 (M11-P) or FW2.0.1 can you please perform the test and report over here?

 

 

2 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Why do they need such complexity if they just need to allow a rollback to 1.6.1 for those who want it? It won't cost them a cent

1.6.1 did not fix this particular freeze, but it did fix many others.

I have a feeling the Edax-bug is the root cause of most previous freezes, though. I would guess that 1.6.1 implemented several fixes that in hindsight would be better called workarounds done without knowing why they were happening.

This gives me hope the next firmware update will be "the one"

[lct]

2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Better to make it automatically "eject" the card at power off and "remount" the card at every power on. Better to have a delay than a crash.

No more delay in startup times please. Got 2 secs. right now personally and i see colleagues complaining about longer startup times already.

[hdmesa]

6 minutes ago, lct said:

No more delay in startup times please. Got 2 secs. right now personally and i see colleagues complaining about longer startup times already.

Then stay at 2.0.2? But I agree, I do not like delays (but I like freezes even less).

 

Edited April 7, 2024 by hdmesa

[lct]

5 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Then stay at 2.0.2? But I agree, I do not like delays (but I like freezes even less).

2.0.2 is excellent for me but i'm not sure this point of view is shared by many people on this good forum 😄

[Smogg]

4 minutes ago, lct said:

2.0.2 is excellent for me but i'm not sure this point of view is shared by many people on this good forum 😄

Therefore, a rollback to 1.6.1 should be made optional. I come to this forum several times a day just like at work in the hope that someone will find the reason for the freezes. Thanks to @Edax, I hope soon it will be possible to breathe out and visit the forum once a month, as I did before😀

[hdmesa]

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3 minutes ago, lct said:

2.0.2 is excellent for me but i'm not sure this point of view is shared by many people on this good forum 😄

It's like walking through a mine field not knowing it's there and somehow not stepping on any of the mines 💣🫣

2 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Therefore, a rollback to 1.6.1 should be made optional. I come to this forum several times a day just like at work in the hope that someone will find the reason for the freezes. Thanks to @Edax, I hope soon it will be possible to breathe out and visit the forum once a month, as I did before😀

1.6.1 rollback should have been made months ago. But Leica has never done a rollback, and allowing one might expose firmware security vulnerabilities since it's likely only possible through some sort of admin/engineering menu in the camera.

[Smogg]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

1.6.1 rollback should have been made months ago. But Leica has never done a rollback, and allowing one might expose firmware security vulnerabilities since it's likely only possible through some sort of admin/engineering menu in the camera.

I wonder if any manufacturer will ever have an open source camera? I think this camera could be a hit

[Edax]

The issue not being there in 1.6.1 (thanks to @Budfox for doing the test!), and that message in the FW2.0.2 release notes:

“Important information regarding the import of DNG files

In rare cases, the import of DNGs from the SD card to image processing programs like Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom would result in damage to the data structure, rendering the DNGs unreadable. This error will be remedied shortly.“

It implicates, at least for me,  that Leica could have found the cause of the issue a long time ago. Their engineers are not stupid. It is even very plausible that they just did find it a long time ago. Waiting 5 months (or more, we don’t know yet) with a firmware release that solves a image corrupting  bug, well that says something of the current state of the company called Leica Camera AG.

The last few weeks I switched on/off the camera and popped the battery many times. I still don’t like the cheap sounding clunk at power up and power down, and don’t care for the so-called advantages of that new bottom. Also, I still don’t like the amount of effort needed in post to get the look that I like.  In other words, for me my M10-P is still the preferred camera.

So I just put the M11-P back in its box, it will have to find a new owner as soon as the new firmware is installed on it. It will be replaced by a few M10-P’s and/or M10-R’s.

It was a short, interesting  ride with a completely unexpected twist.

[hdmesa]

44 minutes ago, Edax said:

...In rare cases, the import of DNGs from the SD card to image processing programs like Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom would result in damage to the data structure, rendering the DNGs unreadable...

It's worse than that because on a Mac it doesn't require any interaction with a program such as PS/LR. All you have to do is have opened the SD card and copied the images manually to the computer:

1. Format Card A and shoot three shots
2. Remove Card A and insert into Mac, leaving the battery out of the camera
3. Do not use any software to import the images
4. Manually open the SD card from its icon on the desktop and manually copy the three DNGs to a folder on the Mac
5. Eject Card A from the Mac, insert it back into camera, and reinsert the battery
6. Take three more shots – first image will be corrupt

Edited April 7, 2024 by hdmesa

[R4p70r]

4 hours ago, hdmesa said:

It's worse than that because on a Mac it doesn't require any interaction with a program such as PS/LR. All you have to do is have opened the SD card and copied the images manually to the computer:

1. Format Card A and shoot three shots
2. Remove Card A and insert into Mac, leaving the battery out of the camera
3. Do not use any software to import the images
4. Manually open the SD card from its icon on the desktop and manually copy the three DNGs to a folder on the Mac
5. Eject Card A from the Mac, insert it back into camera, and reinsert the battery
6. Take three more shots – first image will be corrupt

May I ask in what state the SD card is? Write-protection is set or not? If not write-protection on the SD card is set, what happens if you set it to?

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, R4p70r said:

May I ask in what state the SD card is? Write-protection is set or not? If not write-protection on the SD card is set, what happens if you set it to?

Not write protected. When I switch on write protection for while the card is being used on the computer, the freeze will not happen. The invisible files the Mac OS writes to the card are causing my M11 to go into a state of shock when the card is reinserted.  Formatting the card in camera every time it goes back in is the workaround (or enabling+disabling write protection every time I need to copy images to my computer).

Edited April 8, 2024 by hdmesa

[Knorp]

9 hours ago, hdmesa said:

It's worse than that because on a Mac it doesn't require any interaction with a program such as PS/LR. All you have to do is have opened the SD card and copied the images manually to the computer:

1. Format Card A and shoot three shots
2. Remove Card A and insert into Mac, leaving the battery out of the camera
3. Do not use any software to import the images
4. Manually open the SD card from its icon on the desktop and manually copy the three DNGs to a folder on the Mac
5. Eject Card A from the Mac, insert it back into camera, and reinsert the battery
6. Take three more shots – first image will be corrupt

I'm using Capture One Pro to import my images (DNG+JPEG) and afterwards eject the SD-card (w/o write protection).

Take the SD-card out of the external card-reader and put the card back into my v2.0.1 M11-P.

Then I delete all images, no formatting and all is well.

So no problems here with macOS Sonoma.

NB I'm not using internal storage !

Edited April 8, 2024 by Knorp

[Smogg]

7 minutes ago, Knorp said:

I'm using Capture One Pro to import my images (DNG+JPEG) and afterwards eject the SD-card (w/o write protection).

Take the SD-card out of the external card-reader and put the card back into my v2.0.1 M11-P.

Then I delete all images, no formatting and all is well.

So no problems here with macOS Sonoma.

NB I'm not using internal storage !

This means that Edax-bug has been implemented since version 2.0.2

[hdmesa]

13 hours ago, Knorp said:

I'm using Capture One Pro to import my images (DNG+JPEG) and afterwards eject the SD-card (w/o write protection).

Take the SD-card out of the external card-reader and put the card back into my v2.0.1 M11-P.

Then I delete all images, no formatting and all is well.

So no problems here with macOS Sonoma.

NB I'm not using internal storage !

Did you mean to write 2.0.2?

Your method is different than mine in that you do not open the SD card with the Finder, you just import directly into Capture One. Capture One may not write any invisible files to the SD card like the Finder does.

 

Edited April 8, 2024 by hdmesa

[Knorp]

Just now, hdmesa said:

Did you mean to write 2.0.2?

Your method is different than mine in that you do not open the SD card with the Finder, you just import directly into Capture One. Capture One may not write any invisible files to the SD card like Lightroom does, which was the issue I was commenting on. 

 

Sorry, I'm still on 2.0.1 (two.zero.one) and not intending to update to 2.0.2

[chasdfg]

On 4/8/2024 at 3:11 AM, Edax said:

The issue not being there in 1.6.1 (thanks to @Budfox for doing the test!), and that message in the FW2.0.2 release notes:

“Important information regarding the import of DNG files

In rare cases, the import of DNGs from the SD card to image processing programs like Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom would result in damage to the data structure, rendering the DNGs unreadable. This error will be remedied shortly.“

It implicates, at least for me,  that Leica could have found the cause of the issue a long time ago. Their engineers are not stupid. It is even very plausible that they just did find it a long time ago. Waiting 5 months (or more, we don’t know yet) with a firmware release that solves a image corrupting  bug, well that says something of the current state of the company called Leica Camera AG.

The last few weeks I switched on/off the camera and popped the battery many times. I still don’t like the cheap sounding clunk at power up and power down, and don’t care for the so-called advantages of that new bottom. Also, I still don’t like the amount of effort needed in post to get the look that I like.  In other words, for me my M10-P is still the preferred camera.

So I just put the M11-P back in its box, it will have to find a new owner as soon as the new firmware is installed on it. It will be replaced by a few M10-P’s and/or M10-R’s.

It was a short, interesting  ride with a completely unexpected twist.

Maybe the advantage of the lack of base plate is that it is quicker to pop the battery out when the camera freezes. Leica should put it in their marketing material.

[Knorp]

3 hours ago, chasdfg said:

Maybe the advantage of the lack of base plate is that it is quicker to pop the battery out when the camera freezes. Leica should put it in their marketing material.

Yep, it would be their strongest selling point to date … 🤪

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[Warton]

On 4/7/2024 at 2:51 AM, Edax said:

Thanks for added clarity 😀.

Now it would be really interesting to hear results coming from M11's which are not yet on firmware 2.0.2. 

So owners of M11's with FW1.6.1, FW1.7 (M11-P) or FW2.0.1 can you please perform the test and report over here?

 

I have M11 for about 18 months, currently with firmware 1.6.1. It froze about 3-4 times in total in the past with firmware prior to version 1.6.1. But since 1.6.1, it's zero frozen.

I just religiously followed the steps for debugging, and the froze does NOT happen.

When 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 came out, I yelled it aloud here do NOT upgrade, let others eat the crabs first. But nobody listened, and somebody laughed at me.

Well, I plan to stay with 1.6.1 even if a newer firmware comes out in the future claiming it fixed 2.0.2 frozen issues.

I don't need any new features for my M11 that a firmware can ever possibly deliver. Long live the 1.6.1!

 

 

Edited April 9, 2024 by Warton

[geoffc60]

1 hour ago, Warton said:

I have M11 for about 18 months, currently with firmware 1.6.1. It froze about 3-4 times in total in the past with firmware prior to version 1.6.1. But since 1.6.1, it's zero frozen.

I just religiously followed the steps for debugging, and the froze does NOT happen.

When 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 came out, I yelled it aloud here do NOT upgrade, let others eat the crabs first. But nobody listened, and somebody laughed at me.

Well, I plan to stay with 1.6.1 even if a newer firmware comes out in the future claiming it fixed 2.0.2 frozen issues.

I don't need any new features for my M11 that a firmware can ever possibly deliver. Long live the 1.6.1!

 

 

I agree