M11 freeze issues [Merged]

[Smogg]

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32 minutes ago, geoffc60 said:

Not unless you force them to. I wish everyone wouldn't automatically assume we all have a dud!

Changing memory cards is a very common occurrence. I often import only part of the files to my computer, leaving them on the memory card, and then take pictures further. Now I understand the reason for at least some of my freezes

[Smogg]

At the moment the conclusion is this: If you have removed the battery, then formatting the card is necessary

[hmzimelka]

45 minutes ago, geoffc60 said:

Not unless you force them to. I wish everyone wouldn't automatically assume we all have a dud!

My M11  hardly ever freezes and I would say it's been mostly problem free with exception to the last Firmware update. I tried @Edax method described above, and my M11 froze. 

[Smogg]

By the way, the manufacturer’s strange decision, which requires a formatted card for Backup, now becomes clear.
It turns out that the manufacturer initially failed to make an operating system that can append files to a non-empty memory card, so Leica mentioned this nuance in the user manual.
But the manufacturer obviously did not expect that such a flaw in the operating system would affect other daily operations of users. And now, as I understand it, Leica is urgently rewriting the entire input/output system in order to release the M11D without bugs in May.

Edited April 6, 2024 by Smogg

[Smogg]

Another conclusion: Do not use a spare battery, or insert a clean memory card when replacing the battery with a spare one. It’s better to carry a Power bank with you if you don’t have enough battery power

[lct]

18 minutes ago, Smogg said:

At the moment the conclusion is this: If you have removed the battery, then formatting the card is necessary

Not for me...

[Smogg]

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If your camera still freezes (this may be for another reason), then removing/inserting the battery must be accompanied by inserting a clean memory card.

[Smogg]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

Not for me...

We're not talking about you. We all already know that all your cameras never freeze 😂 I wrote this for those who have problems

[lct]

3 minutes ago, Smogg said:

Another conclusion: Do not use a spare battery, or insert a clean memory card when replacing the battery with a spare one. [...]

Using a spare battery does not do anything special for me...

[elmars]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb Edax:

Until the new firmware is released, let’s hope they finish testing still this year, we can hold a contest "let the M11 freeze in the smallest number of pictures taken". I’ll start with a recipe which needs only two pictures taken:

1. set storage options to “DNG +JPG only on SD”
2. take 2 SD cards A & B, preferably the same size. Back them up, if needed, before this test
3. insert card A, format it in camera, take 1 picture and remove card A from camera
4. insert card B, format it in camera, and immediately remove card B from camera
5. insert card A again, and take 1 picture
6. switch the camera off and observe the red LED next to the cursor pad on the back. Freeze…

 

Afterwards, format card A, before using it again

I tried it with an M11-P:

1. setting IN=SD: It is as described, the camera crashes. There are no pictures on the SD card, but there are in the internal memory.

2. setting DNG+JPG first on SD: I forgot to switch off the camera, but pressed play. Both photos were displayed. Then I tried to format without switching off. The message "SD card error" appeared. Formatting was not possible. It was only possible again after removing the battery.

3. Settings as with no. 2: This time the first image was labelled as unreadable by the camera, the second was displayed. When switching off, the camera crashed, there was no photo on the SD card (neither the camera nor the computer showed one in Lightroom or in the operating system).

 

[Smogg]

53 minutes ago, satijntje said:

I have absolutely no problems when using my M11 Mono with a SanDisk SD card 200MB/s.
 

I don't think Leica should be blamed for the bad M11s, they simply carried over the operating system from the very reliable M10 and tweaked that system a bit. However, they did not take into account the fact that changing the memory card on the M10 does not require removing the battery, but this is different on the M11. M10 also occasionally froze when using liveview and/or Visoflex, but few people paid attention to this, since using liveview there was slow and inconvenient. The bad thing is that identifying the problem and fixing it takes an unacceptably long time. This is certainly a negligence of Leica, the flagship should be exemplary

[Smogg]

I would not be surprised if the error identified by @Edax is also present on the M10. If you have an M10, you can reproduce his experiment, but remove the battery first, then the card, and insert the card first, then the battery. It will be interesting to know the result.

[marchyman]

3 hours ago, Smogg said:

At the moment the conclusion is this: If you have removed the battery, then formatting the card is necessary

That does not describe my usage.   Until doing the above test my current card was last formatted the day I put it in service.  No issues.  However, my automated workflow after removing card is copy images, compare the copy with the original on the card, erase the images on the card.  When the card goes back into the camera there are no images present.   Does that make a difference? I don't know.

[lct]

40 minutes ago, Smogg said:

I don't think Leica should be blamed for the bad M11s, they simply carried over the operating system from the very reliable M10 and tweaked that system a bit. However, they did not take into account the fact that changing the memory card on the M10 does not require removing the battery, but this is different on the M11 [...]

I'm not good at hypotheses but the problem, as i see it, is that such a difference, if any, can only be checked on some cameras and not on others. I did the test above and changed batteries a couple of times already, absolutely to no avail. I even did a camera reset and formatted two 64gb USH2 cards in the camera instead of SD Card Formatter, contrary to my usual practice, and my M11 does not show the least hint of freeze or another issue so far. Now, my cards had been formatted with SD Card Formatter previously and i always turn connectivity off but i don't know if it can make a difference actually. Not that i wish it could, i have absolutely no idea about this, but i would not generalize individual issues anyway. FWIW.

Edited April 6, 2024 by lct

[don daniel]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb Edax:

Until the new firmware is released, let’s hope they finish testing still this year, we can hold a contest "let the M11 freeze in the smallest number of pictures taken". I’ll start with a recipe which needs only two pictures taken:

1. set storage options to “DNG +JPG only on SD”
2. take 2 SD cards A & B, preferably the same size. Back them up, if needed, before this test
3. insert card A, format it in camera, take 1 picture and remove card A from camera
4. insert card B, format it in camera, and immediately remove card B from camera
5. insert card A again, and take 1 picture
6. switch the camera off and observe the red LED next to the cursor pad on the back. Freeze…

 

Afterwards, format card A, before using it again

Damn. This works! Freeze as you have predicted! Card A: Sandisk Extreme Pro 256GB 280R/150W. Card B: Sony Tough 64GB 300R/299R.🤯

Edited April 6, 2024 by don daniel

[Edax]

1 hour ago, Smogg said:

I would not be surprised if the error identified by @Edax is also present on the M10. If you have an M10, you can reproduce his experiment, but remove the battery first, then the card, and insert the card first, then the battery. It will be interesting to know the result.

It is not present in the M10. Don't forget that the M10 has an additional line of defense: it can also detect the removal of the bottom plate. That is already enough to deal with this issue.

[Edax]

And the error is not occurring with my modified spare battery with DIY card slot, when doing the card change through this slot with M11-P turned on. 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Siriusone59]

15 minutes ago, Edax said:

It is not present in the M10. Don't forget that the M10 has an additional line of defense: it can also detect the removal of the bottom plate. That is already enough to deal with this issue.

It doesn't freeze my 10r either.  Standard procedure for me is to remove battery put it on charger, remove card, import images to LR, replace card then insert charged battery.  Like you said, there must be an input from that baseplate removed switch that halts the error.🤔

[hdmesa]

On 4/5/2024 at 2:05 PM, Edax said:

Until the new firmware is released, let’s hope they finish testing still this year, we can hold a contest "let the M11 freeze in the smallest number of pictures taken". I’ll start with a recipe which needs only two pictures taken:

1. set storage options to “DNG +JPG only on SD”
2. take 2 SD cards A & B, preferably the same size. Back them up, if needed, before this test
3. insert card A, format it in camera, take 1 picture and remove card A from camera
4. insert card B, format it in camera, and immediately remove card B from camera
5. insert card A again, and take 1 picture
6. switch the camera off and observe the red LED next to the cursor pad on the back. Freeze…

 

Afterwards, format card A, before using it again

Confirmed freeze on the M11M using the instructions above.

A few tweaks for clarity:

1. Set File Format to “DNG +JPG" and Storage Management to "SD” only.*
2. Take 2 SD cards A & B, matching size is not necessary. If images are on the cards, copy them off before this test because the cards will be erased.
3. With camera off, insert card A, turn camera on, format it in camera, take 1 picture, turn camera off, and remove card A from camera.
4. Insert card B, turn camera on, format it in camera, and immediately turn camera off, and remove card B from camera.
5. Insert card A again, turn camera on, and take 1 picture.
6. Switch the camera off and observe the red LED next to the cursor pad on the back. Freeze…

*Freeze will also happen with File Format set to "DNG" only and Storage Management set to "IN=SD". Perhaps as long as a DNG is being written to the SD card, the freeze will still happen.

@lct, if you can't get yours to freeze using these instructions, could you be missing a step?

Edited April 7, 2024 by hdmesa

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[hdmesa]

On 4/5/2024 at 2:16 PM, Edax said:

I already tried to inform the mothership. It seems however that it is far away from earth now, close to a black hole.

I sent a copy of your instructions to the person at Leica I have been speaking with about these issues back and forth for a very long time. I have no doubt it will get forwarded to the right team.