PDAF likely to replace DFD-CDAF on SL3

[Chaemono]

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb sillbeers15:

…Good job L2! I’m looking forward to SL3 to replace my SL3.

No need to wait then. You should be good to go. 😉

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[beewee]

On 12/29/2022 at 9:52 PM, beewee said:

Bottom line, Leica is such a small fish in this industry, they have very few options available in terms of semi-custom or even pure of the shelf processors go. If they want to build an ASIC, they’re going to need to find a couple hundred million dollars to do this and sell a heck of a lot more cameras to fund it. The only way around this is to share the same processor with Panasonic through the L2 alliance. Only time will tell on this.

Well, looks like it came true.

[LBJ2]

This is the video I'm been looking forward to. Richard Wong. Who is the New King of Autofocus? Panasonic Lumix S5II vs Sony A7IV vs Canon R6II

 

[helged]

Having played a little with Canon R5, I am impressed how the af-system picks up birds or animals, as well as track those at a very high frame rate. Would be interesting to see/learn how S5 Mark II behaves in such circumstances (with a long Sigma or Panasonic lens). Anyone seen anything addressing the above? 

[LBJ2]

3 minutes ago, helged said:

Having played a little with Canon R5, I am impressed how the af-system picks up birds or animals, as well as track those at a very high frame rate. Would be interesting to see/learn how S5 Mark II behaves in such circumstances (with a long Sigma or Panasonic lens). Anyone seen anything addressing the above? 

Tony & Chelsea S5 Mark II YouTube review w/ Sigma 150-600 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by LBJ2

[FlashGordonPhotography]

7 hours ago, proenca said:

Leica has NOT been in the cutting edge of technology dept EVER. as in never. 

 

Ummmm…… That’s not actually true.

Leica TL:

First touch screen icon menu interface.

First on board storage (inbuilt memory) ILC.

First USBC charging direct to camera.

Leica SL (601):

First mirrorless camera with dual card slots.

rear touchscreen.

First 4MP evf (next highest was 2.76mp so MUCH better)

Highest resolution rear LCD at time of release.

First fully weather sealed mirrorless 24x36 camera body.

2nd company to release a 24x36 sensor mirrorless camera. First if you include M

SL2:

Class leading IBIS in a 24x36 format camera body.

Equal highest resolution EVF (with s1R) upon release.

Equal highest resolution sensor on release.

First 24x36mm hybrid with completely separate menus for photo/video.

2nd 24x36 format camera (after s1r) to release in camera high res shot with subject movement correction.

Leica M:

Inbuilt perspective control (now in SL2)

First 24x36 monochrome sensor.

Just for starters………

 

Gordon

[LBJ2]

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32 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Ummmm…… That’s not actually true.

Leica TL:

First touch screen icon menu interface.

First on board storage (inbuilt memory) ILC.

First USBC charging direct to camera.

Leica SL (601):

First mirrorless camera with dual card slots.

rear touchscreen.

First 4MP evf (next highest was 2.76mp so MUCH better)

Highest resolution rear LCD at time of release.

First fully weather sealed mirrorless 24x36 camera body.

2nd company to release a 24x36 sensor mirrorless camera. First if you include M

SL2:

Class leading IBIS in a 24x36 format camera body.

Equal highest resolution EVF (with s1R) upon release.

Equal highest resolution sensor on release.

First 24x36mm hybrid with completely separate menus for photo/video.

2nd 24x36 format camera (after s1r) to release in camera high res shot with subject movement correction.

Leica M:

Inbuilt perspective control (now in SL2)

First 24x36 monochrome sensor.

Just for starters………

 

Gordon

I think the first Leica digital rangefinder was also the first so-called "mirrorless" camera, even though it is a rangefinder as well. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by LBJ2

[SrMi]

30 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Ummmm…… That’s not actually true.

Leica TL:

First touch screen icon menu interface.

First on board storage (inbuilt memory) ILC.

First USBC charging direct to camera.

Leica SL (601):

First mirrorless camera with dual card slots.

rear touchscreen.

First 4MP evf (next highest was 2.76mp so MUCH better)

Highest resolution rear LCD at time of release.

First fully weather sealed mirrorless 24x36 camera body.

2nd company to release a 24x36 sensor mirrorless camera. First if you include M

SL2:

Class leading IBIS in a 24x36 format camera body.

Equal highest resolution EVF (with s1R) upon release.

Equal highest resolution sensor on release.

First 24x36mm hybrid with completely separate menus for photo/video.

2nd 24x36 format camera (after s1r) to release in camera high res shot with subject movement correction.

Leica M:

Inbuilt perspective control (now in SL2)

First 24x36 monochrome sensor.

Just for starters………

 

Gordon

- First camera with perspective control.

- With S1R, first and only FF cameras to assemble pixel shift in-camera and apply motion artifact removal.

[LBJ2]

Just now, SrMi said:

- First camera with perspective control.

- With S1R, first and only FF cameras to assemble pixel shift in-camera and apply motion artifact removal.

"apply motion artifact removal." From my SL2 pixel shift testing, not just a marketing spec either--I found it to be very effective for what it is.

[sillbeers15]

6 hours ago, helged said:

Having played a little with Canon R5, I am impressed how the af-system picks up birds or animals, as well as track those at a very high frame rate. Would be interesting to see/learn how S5 Mark II behaves in such circumstances (with a long Sigma or Panasonic lens). Anyone seen anything addressing the above? 

We will not know the actual user experience on BIF photography until we get to handle the actual camera & specific lens of concern. 
However my personal experience with the current SL2 with 90-280 & sigma 150-600 shows the following AFC on BIF weakness:

1. Difficulty to lock focus on subject against strong back light;

2. Unreliable continuous AF tracking of subject through complicated background;

Based on the few review videos I’ve seen tells me that item 1 is resolved and item 2 is still present but greatly improved with ‘zone focus’ mode selected as articulated by author. I think future firmware updates can and will improve these inaccuracy from the confidence I get seeing Richard Wong’s extensive video AF tracking demo.

Time will tell.

[sillbeers15]

8 hours ago, Chaemono said:

No need to wait then. You should be good to go. 😉

Ah,..I have no interest in Lumix cameras. I observe its development closely to crystal ball into Leica SL3. 
So instead of jumping ship onto Nikon Z9 now, the Panasonic S5Mkll release tells me to wait for the Leica SL3 instead.

Btw my current SL2 is on extended life based on the decision I’ve made one month ago after Godox & Profoto each release off camera flash controllers computable with SL2. Since then I’ve purchased four Godox moonlights from 100-600Ws which I previously do not have even though one can still use it in non TTL & non HSS mode.

I’m glad the now that both the coming SL’s AFC performance and availability of decent third party off camera flash systems made me want to stay on with Leica SL system moving forward as I truly love the optical performance of my Leica lenses and the other attributes of the SL2.

[Yuhau]

Does this mean one can develop a third party  auto focus M  adaptor for the L mount body ?  The same one used by Sony A and Nikon Z  for mounting Leica M lens. 

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Yuhau said:

Does this mean one can develop a third party  auto focus M  adaptor for the L mount body ?  The same one used by Sony A and Nikon Z  for mounting Leica M lens. 

I had the same thoughts after seeing demo of fully functional AFC with a Canon DSLR lens adapted onto the S5 ll via the Sigma MC21 adapter.

Perhaps the AF through a AF adapter might be slower but it brings AF function to Leica M lenses on the SL cameras. What if Leica themselves produces lens specific AF adapter? The M Noctilux will gain AF on the SL camera……my wish list Leica!

[Malabito]

After looking at the results of the new s5, leica has to be crazy not to bring this to the newer sl cameras. 

Autofocus is just horrible on the sl, it's a joke for such expensive cameras, and it always makes me want to change systems after finishing an event.......

Now if they brought phase detect to the new sl, it would really make it my perfect camera. Also probably this means the new sl2s will come with a much higher price tag.....

[insomnia]

I don't think it will be significantly more expensive, they're already struggling to sell. If they wouldn't implement this, the line would simply cease to exist at some point because they refuse to go with the state of the art. There's only so many romantics out there (and it's really not an M).

Edited January 5, 2023 by insomnia

[huwm]

Aren't there enough luddites like me who find the SL2 just about perfect as no interest in anything other than single shot AF and MF?

Edited January 5, 2023 by huwm
typo

[Stuart Richardson]

It looks great, and I think it is good news. It also seems to be an example of Panasonic and Leica's strength. They don't seem to be the first to market all the time (sometimes), but when they do come to market, they tend to have a great implementation, and in some cases the best implementation. In this case I think the S5II is interesting because it is clearly the best full frame video camera in its price point. Gerald Undone's video on the video side of the camera was really interesting, and it seems like the value for money is off the charts. Combine that with the best stabilization in the industry, accurate and clean PDAF, and Panasonics robust video and audio features, and you wind up with a phenomenal camera. I have had the S1 alongside my SL2 for a long time, and I find that the Panasonic cameras are exceptionally well designed cameras made with a lot of thought and care into what matters to photographers. I found myself much less frustrated using a Panasonic camera then I ever did using Sony, for example. Additionally, I found that their color in the Camera Natural mode was my second favorite color out of a digital camera company after Leica. I have not spent enough time to comment on Hasselblad or Phase, but I like the Panasonic camera natural better than Sony, Fuji, Canon, Nikon and Ricoh colors. It is what it advertises...natural. For the price of less than half an L mount Leica lens, this camera will be a great option to throw into the kit for when you need a fully featured video companion to a high resolution stills based camera like the SL2, for example.

[Chaemono]

The video question on my mind is, will SL3 and/or SL3-S be able to do 4K 50p/60p with no crop.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Chaemono

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[LBJ2]

25 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

It looks great, and I think it is good news. It also seems to be an example of Panasonic and Leica's strength. They don't seem to be the first to market all the time (sometimes), but when they do come to market, they tend to have a great implementation, and in some cases the best implementation. In this case I think the S5II is interesting because it is clearly the best full frame video camera in its price point. Gerald Undone's video on the video side of the camera was really interesting, and it seems like the value for money is off the charts. Combine that with the best stabilization in the industry, accurate and clean PDAF, and Panasonics robust video and audio features, and you wind up with a phenomenal camera. I have had the S1 alongside my SL2 for a long time, and I find that the Panasonic cameras are exceptionally well designed cameras made with a lot of thought and care into what matters to photographers. I found myself much less frustrated using a Panasonic camera then I ever did using Sony, for example. Additionally, I found that their color in the Camera Natural mode was my second favorite color out of a digital camera company after Leica. I have not spent enough time to comment on Hasselblad or Phase, but I like the Panasonic camera natural better than Sony, Fuji, Canon, Nikon and Ricoh colors. It is what it advertises...natural. For the price of less than half an L mount Leica lens, this camera will be a great option to throw into the kit for when you need a fully featured video companion to a high resolution stills based camera like the SL2, for example.

Now we shall see if Panansonic can grab more market share and from whom, Canon, Sony, Nikon? 😉. L-mount is already chuck-full of lenses to include third party, second only to the very extensive Sony Emount lens offerings. Now with competitive AF AND what looks to be a very well priced and very capable hybrid video/photo camera, I think Panansonic has a big opportunity to take a much bigger slice of the pie quickly IF they can produce and distribute enough product fast enough with what could be significant demand. 

For all of us industry watchers, hybrid video cameras with AF (not MF) demand seems to be growing exponentially with the all important well-funded enthusiast market which is probably Panasonic CEO made a statement along the lines that "mirrorless video" will be their main focus going forward. 

https://petapixel.com/2022/11/21/panasonic-to-shift-camera-business-to-focus-on-mirrorless-video/

[BernardC]

6 hours ago, Yuhau said:

Does this mean one can develop a third party  auto focus M  adaptor for the L mount body ?  The same one used by Sony A and Nikon Z  for mounting Leica M lens. 

There's nothing stopping any third party from making an AF M adapter for CDAF, other than the fact that the L-Mount API is harder to hack than Sony's (older) protocol.

Those cheap adapters can work with all Sony mirrorless, even the ones that don't have PD sensors. There may be some incompatibilities, as there always are with unlicensed third-party products, but they shouldn't have anything to do with CDAF.