Wollensak Velostigmat 127mm

[sandro]

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Yesterday I visited the large camera fair in the Netherlands and bought a Wollensak Velostigmat 4.5/127mm. According to the seller, who is a reputed Leitz/Leica collector and dealer, my lens was produced in 1942. On the internet I read that production started only in 1944.

Does anyone know if there is a list with serial num,bers and production years? And is there any literature on the lens, perhaps in Vidom or in Viewfinder? 

Lex

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[Pyrogallol]

Laney’s Collectors’ Guide gives dates of 1944-51 with coating from 1945 and a change of name from Velostigmat to Raptar in about 1950.

Lager also has 1944-51 and shows serial numbers between 439016 and 512815 and three different names, Anastigmat in the earliest, Velostigmat and Raptar. I have 452326

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[sandro]

The head of the Wollensak Velostigmat 127mm can be unscrewed, like many Leitz lenses. Inside the barrel I find rather crudely engraved by hand '051', also done nicely with red ink. I have no idea what the number stands for, it doesn't match the serial number.

Lex

[spydrxx]

Maybe it's the decimal add-on to the stated focal length.

[sandro]

Thanks, that's interesting. I forgot to check Laney. My lens doesn't look coated. Laney gives as minimum aperture 22, but mine also has 32 and 45. The serial number is 454765, so I guess it would be from 1944 or 1945, if Laney and Lager are correct about the production years.

Lex

[romanus53]

have a look here https://alphaxbetax.com/wollensak-serial-numbers/

[luigi bertolotti]

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4 hours ago, sandro said:

Thanks, that's interesting. I forgot to check Laney. My lens doesn't look coated. Laney gives as minimum aperture 22, but mine also has 32 and 45. The serial number is 454765, so I guess it would be from 1944 or 1945, if Laney and Lager are correct about the production years.

Lex

I think f 22 is a typo : afaik they go to f 45 (originally was a lens for large formats... 4x5" or 9x12 / 10x15)  , and f 32 for the last ones marked "Raptar"

Many (Velostigmat, not the first Anastigmat) do bear an inscription which I have never understood... "FOCUS SER. II" : do someone know what is its meaning ? I have seen a similar lens for LF (Velostigmat 127mm f 6,3) bearing "FOCUS SER. IV"...

Abut the 051 number into the mount... this item (Anastigmat) on ebay has it too, matching the last digits of the s/n... https://www.ebay.com/itm/373923056521

Edited November 14, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

[sandro]

Thanks Luigi, you must be right about the f22. In my case the 051 doesn't match with the serial number. When compared to the one you noticed on ebay I might say that my lens head and the barrel were not initially meant for each other....

Apparently earlier numbers as well as later numbers have the mention of 'focus' on the front ring, in between numbers (like mine) don't seem to have that. I checked the serial number list that Romanus mentioned and then I think my lens could date from 1945.

An adapter for this 127mm lens exists to use it on Visoflex (I think). The lens head can be screwed on OTRPO/16471 to use it for macro on the Bellows and Visoflex combination.

Lex

[zeitz]

Lex, I don't think there was an adapter for Visoflex because at the time these lenses were made, PLOOT was the available reflex housing and there wasn't a bellows.  There were adapters for the Focoslide sliding stages from E Leitz NY:  COONY for the 90mm Velostigmat and COOSE / 70445 for the 127mm Velostigmat / Raptor.  They were used along with the COOMI focusing mount.

[sandro]

Zeitz, interesting. I thought about the adapter because I saw one for sale: Leitz Wollensak Velostigmat Adapter Anastigmat 4.5/127 New York COOSE 70445 /290 | eBay

So is that perhaps the focusing mount COOMI that you mentioned?

Sorry, I was too hasty, I saw the code and number mentioned in the add, it is the COOSE/70445.

Lex

Edited November 14, 2022 by sandro

[zeitz]

I am always amazed at the number of Focaslide / Focoslide sliding stages along with all the adapters that were made.  Many came from Leitz NY, but later Wetzlar made the final versions.  There are many Focoslides listed on e-bay, some at near give away prices.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

As per LELCP:

In his book "Leica Illustrated guide II" Jim Lager has, on page 70, a photo of 127mm Leica Anastigmat f4.5 No. 439060 which clearly has "22  32  45" engraved on the lens barrel. There is also Leica Anastigmat 127mm f4.5 No. 439016 lens head.  Wollensak Velostigmat 127mm Focus Ser. II f4.5 No. 458565 lens head. Wollensak 127mm f4.5 Series II Raptar No. 512815 lens head. There is also an IMFIN (As a person should be.) Universal Finder (Made between 1944 & 1950,) on page 106 that includes a 127mm engraving & markings. He writes on page 104 that there are also (Apparently nice) VIOOH Universal Finders (Made between 1946 & 1950.) that have marks, etc. for 127mm lenses.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 15, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

7 hours ago, sandro said:

Thanks Luigi, you must be right about the f22. In my case the 051 doesn't match with the serial number. When compared to the one you noticed on ebay I might say that my lens head and the barrel were not initially meant for each other....

Apparently earlier numbers as well as later numbers have the mention of 'focus' on the front ring, in between numbers (like mine) don't seem to have that. I checked the serial number list that Romanus mentioned and then I think my lens could date from 1945.

An adapter for this 127mm lens exists to use it on Visoflex (I think). The lens head can be screwed on OTRPO/14071 to use it for macro on the Bellows and Visoflex combination.

Lex

Hello Sandro,

The 16495/ZOOAN focusing mount for the 135mm f4.5 Hektor & the 14071 focusing mount for the 135mm f4 Elmar can both be used directly on a Visoflex I.

A 16471/OTRPO is an extension tube which is added to a 16464/OTZFO focusing mount in order to focus closer than the normal range.

A 16464/OTZFO focusing mount is generally used with a 65mm f3.5 Elmar lens head, a 90mm f2.8 Elmarit lens head or/& a 135mm f4 Tele-Elmar lens head.

A16472/OTSRO extension tube attaches to the front of a 16464/OTZFO focusing mount or to the front of a 16471/OTRPO extension tube to allow a 135mm f4.5 Hektor lens head or a 135mm f4 Elmar lens head to focus correctly, like a 135mm f4 Tele-Elmar lens head alone would focus, on a 16464/OTZFO. With, or without, a 16471/OTRPO.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited November 15, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[romanus53]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb luigi bertolotti:

Many (Velostigmat, not the first Anastigmat) do bear an inscription which I have never understood... "FOCUS SER. II" : do someone know what is its meaning ? I have seen a similar lens for LF (Velostigmat 127mm f 6,3) bearing "FOCUS SER. IV"...

it reads 3 focus with the numer in a circle, perhaps indicating good color correction focusing three color-lines in one focus point; Wollensack made a Three Focus Symmetrical what we would call Double-Anastigmat giving three focal length in one lens but the Velostigmat is different Tessar-type design.

[luigi bertolotti]

44 minutes ago, romanus53 said:

it reads 3 focus with the numer in a circle, perhaps indicating good color correction focusing three color-lines in one focus point; Wollensack made a Three Focus Symmetrical what we would call Double-Anastigmat giving three focal length in one lens but the Velostigmat is different Tessar-type design.

Thanks... I didn't notice the small number circled... curios that it can be "2" or "3".... 😗... modified design ? (the one with "2" is older... 442.xxx vs. 452.xxx)

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Edited November 15, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

[sandro]

My lens has a 2 in the circle between '127mm' and 'focus', but mine doesn't have a really early number. Now I also begin to wonder what the yellow dot between the serial number and 'Wollensak' might mean.

Lex

[luigi bertolotti]

23 minutes ago, sandro said:

My lens has a 2 in the circle between '127mm' and 'focus', but mine doesn't have a really early number. Now I also begin to wonder what the yellow dot between the serial number and 'Wollensak' might mean.

Lex

The yellow dot is recessed,,, maybe it's just for referencing where to insert a tool to unscrew the front ring... 😉 (or it's an allusion to the yellow component of light ? 🙄or the "advice" to use a yellow filter 🙄)

And... (pure speculation) could 2 and 3 refer to the coating tech ?

Edited November 15, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

[sandro]

Luigi, your suggestions about the yellow dot are as good as any. But I suspect the dot is just a kind of indication, like the red T that appeared on lenses of another brand. And I am still puzzled by the encircled 2 and 3. On ebay I find a 127mm Velostigmat with serial number 452383 and a 3. So there doesn't seem to be a chronological sequence, since my slightly later number has a 2.

The 2 also appears on the 3.5/50mm Velostigmat, as well as on the 4.5/90mm Raptar (same lens as Velostigmat, but with another name), whereas another 4.5/90mm Velostigmat hasn encircled 1.

I just found an article in Vidom 113 (2017) about the Wollensak lenses produced for Leica cameras, but the details we are looking for are not mentioned there.

Lex

Edited November 15, 2022 by sandro

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[alan mcfall]

I have recorded about 150 serials for the Wollensak lenses for the Leica, 50, 90, 127. The earliest is 424718 and the latest is 512890. The first batch of 50mm lenses seem to start at 453xxx.

The first batch of 90mm seem to start at 455xxx. I attach photos of the 127's, in some of their variations(only 4 lenses at two angles).

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Edited November 16, 2022 by alan mcfall

[romanus53]

"

A note on lens coating and yellow dots:
Wollensak introduced a hard-coat anti-reflection magnesium fluoride coating in 1944 and began offering the coating commercially at an extra charge in 1946. Beginning in 1947, this “Wocote” lens coating was standard on all Wollensak lenses for commercial cameras and indicated by a stylized letter W-in-a-C logo (shown at right). All of Wollensak’s Raptar lenses are single coated.

Wollensak lenses marked with a yellow dot were sold on contract to the U.S. armed forces and “winterized” by using a synthetic thermosetting cement instead of Canada balsam." https://alphaxbetax.com/wollensak-lens-and-shutter-compendium/