I cancelled my M6 2022 order

[jukka]

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1 hour ago, lmans said:

 have the MA, which I feel is more the essence of 'what I regard' as camera purity. 

I don’t get this purity thing at all. Why would you choose the lesser tool for the job? What does “camera purity” even mean? 

In that context I too would choose the new M6 over old ones as well as over the MP. It’s more functional. 

The broader discussion here seems to be between using and collecting. These are two vastly different end games. 

The modem online consumer of course wants the new model, via a waiting list, if he or she actually intends to use the camera for taking photos.

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[kivis]

1 hour ago, jukka said:

I don’t get this purity thing at all. Why would you choose the lesser tool for the job? What does “camera purity” even mean? 

In that context I too would choose the new M6 over old ones as well as over the MP. It’s more functional. 

The broader discussion here seems to be between using and collecting. These are two vastly different end games. 

The modem online consumer of course wants the new model, via a waiting list, if he or she actually intends to use the camera for taking photos.

For many of us the M-A is the ultimate in simplicity of the M camera. Unless you have actually shot with a meterless M you will not know what this experience is. Not putting down the metered M's at all, it is just a different experience.

[jukka]

24 minutes ago, kivis said:

For many of us the M-A is the ultimate in simplicity of the M camera. Unless you have actually shot with a meterless M you will not know what this experience is.

Yeah, I’ve actually shot with a meterless M. To me, the experience with a metered M is very similar, with the added benefit of the meter, which you obviously can ignore if you so choose. 

It’s the same with the M7. The experience is very similar to a metered M, with the added benefit of aperture priority, which you also can ignore, if you so choose. 

24 minutes ago, kivis said:

it is just a different experience.

All film Ms really handle the same; in effect, they are the same, that’s the point of their existence. Thus, I don’t get this exceptionalistic purity argument.

Edited November 13, 2022 by jukka

[willeica]

4 hours ago, kivis said:

For many of us the M-A is the ultimate in simplicity of the M camera. Unless you have actually shot with a meterless M you will not know what this experience is. Not putting down the metered M's at all, it is just a different experience.

Or a I Model A which you can carry in your pocket and use zone focus. 
 

William 

[willeica]

9 hours ago, Huss said:

I don’t find anything particularly intriguing about simple supply and demand economics, nor anything ironic about it either.

And i do see how you didn’t answer the very basic question of which camera would you take, given the choice - a new M6 or a 40 year old M6?  Because the answer of that is exactly why people buy new cameras which is why you choose to ignore it.  

 

 

 

 

The question is not relevant to me. I can see how it is relevant to others. 

William

[LocalHero1953]

38 minutes ago, willeica said:

Or a I Model A which you can carry in your pocket and use zone focus. 
 

William 

I feel impure - I only have a Leica Standard.🙂

The notion of 'purity' comes up time after time in Leica discussions: all sorts of different digital Ms are cited for their purity, as did recently the notion of a future Q3. Any camera without a battery is pure, of course. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[ianman]

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7 hours ago, jukka said:

I don’t get this purity thing at all. Why would you choose the lesser tool for the job? What does “camera purity” even mean? 

I don’t know but I would think that a camera obscura or at most a pinhole might be considered as basic rather than pure.

7 hours ago, jukka said:

The broader discussion here seems to be between using and collecting. These are two vastly different end games. 

 

Why are they vastly different? There is plenty of overlap. Some people with vast collections use them with great effectiveness as willleica has demonstrated time and again.

Some users have “collections”. Now define what a collection is. It’s not necessarily a large number of slightly different items which live behind glass and only ever fondled with white gloves.

We often see this vs that in many areas, photography (film vs digital), music (vinyl vs Cd, rock vs classical), even computers (Apple vs Microsoft), etc. It’s not always, if ever, black and white. There is always, happily,  a middle way.

[willeica]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I feel impure - I only have a Leica Standard.🙂

The notion of 'purity' comes up time after time in Leica discussions: all sorts of different digital Ms are cited for their purity, as did recently the notion of a future Q3. Any camera without a battery is pure, of course. 

Paul, for me it has nothing to do with a notion of purity. It is all about the fun and sense of liberation to be got out of using a camera with no meter and no rangefinder. All that being said, the new M6 is a lovely camera. We are lucky to have such choices.

William 

[Danner]

7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I see no difference in experience if I put the battery out of M6/MP.

I use a Gossen handheld meter with my M6 Classics about 95% of the time.  And, I leave the batteries in the M6's at the same time!

[lmans]

11 hours ago, jukka said:

I don’t get this purity thing at all. Why would you choose the lesser tool for the job? What does “camera purity” even mean? 

In that context I too would choose the new M6 over old ones as well as over the MP. It’s more functional. 

The broader discussion here seems to be between using and collecting. These are two vastly different end games. 

The modem online consumer of course wants the new model, via a waiting list, if he or she actually intends to use the camera for taking photos.

The purity thing is where I am coming from and I do believe there is a difference between not having a light meter, and just not using the existing one. Small difference, admittedly ...small. ....The MA is pure mechanical, no choices, nothing to fall back on. The MA offers an intangible aspect that isn't quite understood by all. I get that...

I don't use the old M6 much, and if purchased a new M6, for the money.....I wouldn't use it over the MA, so I am happy with the old M6 as backup.

Use and Collect? You can only use one camera at a time and regardless of your cameras are spread out thru 30 years, or of more recent purchase, it is not a matter of 'using or collecting, but just 'using what, when'.

Yes on the modern user....or users that just 'want' but once they have, they either don't use, or can't figure it out, thus,....they they trade-in. Personally, I don't have the income to afford too many Leica's:-)  

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by lmans

[lmans]

9 hours ago, kivis said:

For many of us the M-A is the ultimate in simplicity of the M camera. Unless you have actually shot with a meterless M you will not know what this experience is. Not putting down the metered M's at all, it is just a different experience.

Spot on.... 

[jaapv]

3 minutes ago, lmans said:

The purity thing is where I am coming from.... I want a pure mechanical camera in the MA, although I still do own an M6. But the MA offers an intangible aspect that isn't quite understood by all. I get that...

I don't use the old M6 much, and if purchased a new M6, for the money.....I wouldn't use it over the MA, so I am happy with the old M6 as backup.

Use and Collect? You can only use one camera at a time and regardless of your cameras are spread out thru 30 years, or of more recent purchase, it is not a matter of 'using or collecting, but just 'using what, when'.

Yes on the modern user....or users that just 'want' but once they have, they either don't use, or can't figure it out, thus,....they they trade-in. Personally, I don't have the income to afford too many Leica's:-)  

 

You can take the battery out...

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, willeica said:

Paul, for me it has nothing to do with a notion of purity. It is all about the fun and sense of liberation to be got out of using a camera with no meter and no rangefinder. All that being said, the new M6 is a lovely camera. We are lucky to have such choices.

William 

I agree - my post was a mild dig at those looking for a 'pure' experience, not you!

[lmans]

18 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You can take the battery out...

Yes I can.....but one always has the option of putting it back in, right? ...

When I go out shooting for the day with my MA.... I have no backup, physically or mentally. The shot is taken with no option to put in the battery, or turn it on. Next time you go out shooting, go without the battery. Leave it at home..... Feel what it is like to not even have 'as an option' or a backup, the possibility other than your own judgement. It is a sort of freedom that comes when you have no choice of a choice. 

Liberating......      Akin to leaving the home w/o a phone. Then try both of those in combination. No Battery in the M6 or M7 (left home, not even in the car or in your pocket). No phone. Oooo la la 🙂 ....welcome back to the 1960s  man.....far out ....! 

Edited November 13, 2022 by lmans

[cj3209]

10 minutes ago, lmans said:

No Battery in... M7 (left home, not even in the car or in your pocket). No phone. Oooo la la 🙂 ....welcome back to the 1960s  man.....far out ....! 

I don't know...no batteries in my M7 means I can only use 1/60 or 1/125; that's not freedom...lol...

😆 But I get what you mean.

[lmans]

46 minutes ago, cj3209 said:

I don't know...no batteries in my M7 means I can only use 1/60 or 1/125; that's not freedom...lol...

😆 But I get what you mean.

True on that.... the M7 is a unique camera. I am not sure why they discontinued that one.... 

[BradS]

It seems like this notion of purity is purely psychological and therefore, highly subjective. 
 

and I guess that a camera without a built-in meter is only conceptually simpler than one with a built-in meter.  In actual use, the camera without requires more of the user…not less. 

[earleygallery]

This thread is misleading. The OP didn't cancel his order he just bought the camera from a different source.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[earleygallery]

1 minute ago, BradS said:

It seems like this notion of purity is purely psychological and therefore, highly subjective. 
 

and I guess that a camera without a built-in meter is only conceptually simpler than one with a built-in meter.  In actual use, the camera without requires more of the user…not less. 

How so? Unless we are talking about auto metering, a camera with a meter or a camera without a meter still requires the photographer to choose the shutter speed and f stop (however one chooses to decide that).

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, jaapv said:

You can take the battery out...

I hear this all the time when this discussion arises.  I have never looked through the viewfinder of an MP, but doesn't the area reserved for the LEDs have any impact on the experience of looking through the viewfinder?  Or is it (somehow) exactly the same as the M-A?  It would be cool to see a photo of the inside of the MP viewfinder to compare with that of the M-A.  I've never been able to locate an MP finder photo online.