Is focus shift “normal” in the reissue Steel Rim?

[ymc226]

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Compared to my APO 35 Summicron which has no focus shift, the reissue Summilux has significant focus shift (rear) from 2.8 up to 8.  Was this a characteristic of the original and thus normally expected?  It is in focus wide open so probably not going to worry about it and just use the EVF at intermediate apertures.  

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[ymc226]

This is at a distance of 4 to 5 feet which is my usual distance for pictures of my family. 

[lct]

Focus shift or back focus? My copy of the Summilux 35/1.4 v2 is calibrated at f/2.8 and has some focus shift from f/1.4 to f/2.8 and from f/2.8 to f/4 more or less.

[SiggiGun]

Focus shift is normal for non FLE and non aspherical lenses. So, it is very common for older lenses. 

[shirubadanieru]

Always used non-asph lenses both 35mm and 50mm, never ever noticed focus shift. That includes the original steel rim and lux v2.

[elmars]

Many users don‘t notice focus shift, mostly because they don‘t take photos in the relevant distances with the relevant apertures. But that doesn‘t mean there is no shift. 

[pgk]

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Lens design and the photographic capture methods have moved on and we have become far more demanding of our equipment. What was acceptable 60 years ago may show up characteristics, or flaws' which were rarely evident 60 years ago. I wonder when lenses such as my 35/1.4 pre-FLE Apheric will become 'classics' and appreciated for what they are (I already do).

[lct]

4 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Always used non-asph lenses both 35mm and 50mm, never ever noticed focus shift. That includes the original steel rim and lux v2.

Perhaps because you shoot mostly at the aperture for which your lenses are calibrated. But if your Summilux 35/1.4 v2 is calibrated at f/2.8, as is mine, you should notice some focus shift the same way as i do when shooting, say, at f/1.4 or f/4. Now if your lenses are calibrated at f/1.4, you may well notice no focus shift at all if you shoot mostly at full aperture. My two cents.

[shirubadanieru]

I shoot at f11, 5.6, 2.8 & 1.4 mostly with lux 50 v2, 35 pre asph. Also with cron 35 v1 & 50 rigid. Maybe focus shift is there, but in real use (street/portraits mostly) I've never noticed it in my 9y of using leica both on film & digital..my shots are always on focus regardless the aperture, even if shot at MFD.

Edited November 5, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[shinobi2012]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb shirubadanieru:

I shoot at f11, 5.6, 2.8 & 1.4 mostly with lux 50 v2, 35 pre asph. Also with cron 35 v1 & 50 rigid. Maybe focus shift is there, but in real use (street/portraits mostly) I've never noticed it in my 9y of using leica both on film & digital..my shots are always on focus regardless the aperture, even if shot at MFD.

Than you are lucky. I sometimes notice it (on film) in close distances with Lux 50 pre ASPH v2 and Lux pre ASPH on certain Apertures. That is normal, and in small Prints up to 18x24cm its not noticeable. 

[UliWer]

Well, before you can notice focus shift, you need some focus to start with:

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At f1.4 my Canadian version of the 35mm Summilux from 1980 shows considerable "depth of focus" on a strong crop of a picture taken from approx. 2m distance. I'd have to guess where the "focus" is, perhaps at - 1 or -2?

At f/2 I keep guessing - also at -1 or -2?

 

The picture changes completely at f/2.8, here I'd look for the focus at +1 or +2:

At f/4 you get depth of focus again, the peak may be +3 or +4

 

I think focus shift is annoying, when you really see considerable differences between the lens fully opened and stopped down two or three apertures. Since the 35mm Summilux is so soft fully opened, the "shift" will not matter in real life. So my advice would be to ignore it. I don't think the new version will be different. 

[pippy]

1 hour ago, UliWer said:

...I think focus shift is annoying......my advice would be to ignore it. I don't think the new version will be different...

This ^

Philip.

[lct]

15 hours ago, UliWer said:

I think focus shift is annoying, when you really see considerable differences between the lens fully opened and stopped down two or three apertures. Since the 35mm Summilux is so soft fully opened, the "shift" will not matter in real life. So my advice would be to ignore it.

Not sure it would be my advice as far as the Summilux 35/1.4 v2 is concerned. Focus shift appears at f/4-f/5.6 on my German version from 1989. Same on my Summicron 35/2 v4 copies more or less. 

[ymc226]

As much as I disliked working with an EVF in the past (Leica Q, SL, SL2), slightly out of focus pictures are much more annoying.  I'm getting used to the new M11 Visoflex so will bring that along with lenses that have significant focus shift.  I still have the version 1 35 Summilux ASPH which I use occasionally and will benefit from the Visoflex.   I'll convince myself it is just like having a MR meter on an M2 visually/aesthetically which breaks up the clean lines of a M.

[UliWer]

I shouldn't be too optimistic using EVF with the non-aspherical 35mm Summilux. When I took the photos above I used the EVF and max. magnification on the camera's screen. At f/1.4 almost the whole ruler on the Spyder Lenscal device was highlighted in red by focus peaking. The EVF didn't "see" much differences in contrast even though the numbers on the base are approx. 15cm closer than those on the top. - And the EVF with focus peaking wasn't wrong as you can see on the result. 

[lct]

M11's EVF with focus magnification at f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8 and f/4 below. f/5.6 not shown but similar to f/4 re focus shift.

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[UliWer]

Would you notice the "shift" on your photos? I only notice the well known fact that the Summilux changes its character from being very soft and "unsharp" fully opened to precise definition of details stopped down. 

[lct]

You may wish to compare f/2.8 to f/4 in those crops.

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[UliWer]

I confess that I am still guessing and don't come to definite answer:

I suppose you focussed on the little yellow object highlighted by a red square in the f/1.4-example. Yes, it looks less in focus at f/4 than at f/2.8 - but it is hard for me to see the difference. i am distracted at the same time by the branches on the left, which seem to be closer and look "sharper" at f/4 than at f/2.8. At he same time the tree on the right of the little red square with the yellow leaves at the top, which seems to be farther away, looks sharper at f/4 than at f/2.8. Result of focus shift or larger DOF and better performance of the lens stopped down?

I cannot make up my mind.

[lct]

My opinion is made since i got the Summilux i.e. for 15 years more or less and i thought the topic was documented but i may be wrong so i will post larger pics of crops when i have some time.