New M11 - Best Lightweight, Small Travel Combo?

[TheEyesHaveIt]

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Hi all - new to the M system (have and love a Q2). Just paid for an M11 today, so next up is figuring out lenses. I am a fan of a small, lightweight combo that I can easily take (and walk around all day with) if I travel, especially to Europe. I am not taking the Q2 along as well (plan to sell it eventually). I don't shoot portraits or wildlife or flowers. I haven't shot street in the past - I more like capturing a city's architecture or landscape. Stuff like the photo below (taken with my Q2).

Compared to the Q2, I sometimes feel I need more reach (where I can't zoom in with my feet) and I used to use a 16-35 on my Sony and really liked the wide angle view. Based on that, I have two combos in mind, but finding it hard to choose:

Combo 1

Voigtlander 15mm 4.5 ($750 new)
Leica 28mm 2.8 Elmarit ($2800 new)
Leica 50mm 1.4 Summilux ($4500 new)

Combo 2

Voigtlander 21mm 4.0 ($420 new)
Leica 35mm 1.4 Summilux ($5400 new)
7artisans 75mm 1.25 ($450 new) or Leica Macro-Elmar 90mm 4.0 ($4000 new)

I don't know how Voigtlander and 7artisan lenses compare to Leica's (outside of the price) and I'm ok with spending on the Leica lenses for the "primary" focal lengths that I would shoot (very long or very wide would be more rare - not the general walk around lens I would keep on the camera).

What do folks think or are there other options that I'm missing?

Cheers!

 

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[Kl@usW.]

Nice picture, made on the short end of the Q ? 

You sure can expect a deluge of answers for  your question. The beauty  lies in the circumstance that it´s unanswerable for once and forever--tomorrow  you'll need a different set than today... 

For me, two lenses on two bodies work best meaning one cam on each shoulder.  I hate changing lenses in the middle of walk. My usual set up depends on what I expect. Usually 35 and 21 is helpful if a lot of architecture is involved, or 50 and 35 for people... And a 90 in the bag.   If you like to immerse in crowds: 24 is a much underestimated focal length, it combines perfectly with a 50.      A 50 Summarit in daylight, a Lux at night. 

Let me add one observation I find useful ( not only in that respect ) If you can't decide on the right answer, either the question is wrong or all the answers are right. 

k. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Kl@usW.

[Knipsknecht]

Because you are looking for a “lightweight, small travel combo” you might want to consider this:

Voigtländer 21mm 1:3,5 Color-Skopar Aspherical VM (here a review with lots of photos in german (I recommend “deepl” for translation): https://www.messsucherwelt.com/21mm-color-skopar-f-3-5-weite-weite-welt/

And here the official site from Voigtlander: https://www.voigtlaender.de/lenses/vm/21-mm-135-color-skopar-aspherical/?lang=en

Voigtlander 35mm 1:2.0 Ultron Aspherival II (https://www.voigtlaender.de/lenses/vm/35-mm-12-0-ultron-aspherical-ii/?lang=en)

Leica 50mm 1:2.0 Summicron (https://leicacamerausa.com/leica-summicron-m-50mm-f-2-black-anodized.html)

… or

Leica 75mm 1:2.4 (or 2.5) Summarit (here a review: https://prosophos.com/2012/01/26/the-leica-75mm-summarit-f2-5/)

The downside of the Summarit is that you can only get it used because Leica dropped the Summarit-Line. Another drawback would be that the 75mm Summarit needs 42mm filters while the three aforementioned lenses all take 39mm filters!

My personal opinion is that with a camera as capable as the M11 one doesn’t need lenses faster than f2.0, as long as one isn’t a dedicated portrait photographer.

The lenses mentioned above will do the job very well, they are small and light and are fairly affordable (given the average prices in the Leica realm).

And concerning your question regarding Voigtlander lenses: Especially the newer ones are on par with their Leica counterparts.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Knipsknecht

[Dennis]

or Combo 4

21 Super Elmar-M (alias SEM) (new)

35 FLE 2 (new)

.

(extra) 50 Voigtlander APO (new)

With the 21+35 combo, wow. Limitless 🙂 It's a beauty of plan...

. 

IMHO, two lens combo is fair, three is too much! But it's me.

M11 + 35 FLE 2 all day and night long. And when you need more context and information, switch to SEM. There is nothing a SEM can't do. But I will not use a color skopar on the M11

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Dennis

[TheEyesHaveIt]

How is the 21 SEM regarded? Curious how it performs vs. the extremely small Voigtlander Color Skopar 21?

For those advocating for 21+35 - do you miss the reach of a 50 at all? I know you can likely crop the 35 to get to the 50mm field of view (Especially on the M11) - 75mm might be a stretch. 35 is appealing in that in can be on the camera like 90% of the time and for very specific shots, you switch to a 21. With a 28 + 50, I wonder if it'll "encourage / require" more switching - like a 60/40 split.

 

Edit: Took a look through my Lightroom catalog and using the Q2 only in London and Greece "worked", but I can certainly see places where longer would've been better (like a 35 or a 50 or even a 75) or a wider would've been better (like a 21). I'm not sure I LOVE the look of the 28 for street - feels a bit too far away from the details that are interesting.

Edited October 25, 2022 by TheEyesHaveIt

[garysamson]

Here is my suggestion based on your interest in city architecture and  landscape:

Voigtlander 28mm Ultron Type II 

Voigtlander 50mm APO Lanthar 

90mm f2.4  Summarit (used)

The 28 and 50 Voigtlanders will afford you great ability to crop in on your high resolution  M!1 files.

Gary

www.garysamsonphotography.com

[Jared]

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The 21mm SEM is excellent in terms of optical quality and a good choice for architecture and tight spaces. Minimal distortion. I can’t compare with the Voigtlander as I haven’t shot with the Skopar. There are two downsides to the 21mm SEM, both pretty obvious. First, precise framing will require either LiveView or the Visoflex, and very wide angle shots tend to benefit from accurate framing. The second “issue” with the SEM is its speed (or lack there of). Great for travel, but a bit slow if the light is poor.

I would personally combine the 21mm with a 35mm and a 75mm. Others would tell you a 28mm and a 50mm. Either combo would work well. I bet you could find a reasonably good deal on a 35mm ‘Lux FLE given the recent announcement of a close focus replacement. It’s a great lens. The only thing better (arguably) is the 35 APO and those are very hard to find. I’ve also had really good luck with the Voigtlander 35mm Ultron Vintage. Super inexpensive, very compact, and solid performance optically aside from the corners. Great travel lens.

For the 75mm, I’d recommend the 75mm Summarit 2.4 used. Not too expensive, great results, small, light, and the 2.4 version focuses to 0.7m. Second choice for your use would be the 75mm Summicron APO. It has less fringing than the Summarit, but it’s bigger and heavier and more expensive—not as good a match for travel photography. Again, Voigtlander may make excellent equivalents, but I haven’t used them so can’t say.

If you prefer the 28/50 route, I think the 28mm Summaron is an absolute jewel for walking around cities. It’s super slow and has a ton of vignetting, but it’s tack sharp anywhere near the center of the field, and it’s incredibly compact. A second choice would be the Elmarit which is not quite as small, not quite as “jewel like”, but is two stops faster with much less vignetting. For the 50mm, it’s hard to beat the Summilux Asphere. 

[pippy]

28mm Elmarit ASPH; 50mm Summicron v4 / v5 and either 75mm or 90mm Summarit f2.4 / f2.5 depending on your 75/90 preferences.

P.

Edited October 25, 2022 by pippy

[Jeff S]

Since you’ve never used an M, I would pick one, use it for a while, and then determine the rest.  Each is capable of fine pics. Tastes vary greatly on ergonomics, handling and other subtle characteristics, including even hood design, focus action, aperture ring detents, viewing ease (possibly requiring external finder or Viso), etc.  

GAS can lead to quick decisions, before one  develops opinions and goals based on experience.  For me, less is more. I’ve been shooting M cameras for 35+ years, and still stick with 28/35/50 focal lengths, using RF only.  Other tools meet other needs.  But that’s something I learned for myself; others will have very different approaches, all of which might be valid for them.  Surveys never informed my photo habits or tastes.

Jeff

[chriscove]

My 3 lens kit which I take everywhere with an M11 amd M10M is

21 SEM- A must have lens if you do any landscape or architectural work. It far better than the Voigtlander 

35 FLE- You can buy the version 1 for 3K right now and it is the one lens I would keep above all others

90 Summarit- You could also do the 75 as well. These are super sharp and relatively low cost.

All these are pretty easy to find used at Fred Miranda Buy Sell forums and you will never regret purchasing them

Chris

Edited October 26, 2022 by chriscove

[TheEyesHaveIt]

29 minutes ago, chriscove said:

My 3 lens kit which I take everywhere with an M11 amd M10M is

21 SEM- A must have lens if you do any landscape or architectural work. It far better than the Voigtlander 

35 FLE- You can buy the version 1 for 3K right now and it is the one lens I would keep above all others

90 Summarit- You could also do the 75 as well. These are super sharp and relatively low cost.

All these are pretty easy to find used at Fred Miranda Buy Sell forums and you will never regret purchasing them

Chris

Thanks - decided to go this route, starting with the 35 and will add the others as I get more comfortable.

[jakontil]

Regarding the 35mm, it is quite interesting given all the choices…

how bout 35 summicron over FLE? I have both but not at the same time, unless if you shoot at 1.4, the cron is quite considerable

i have the color skopar 21mm, mainly used with my film camera, great performing lens for its price, but im so intrigued with the SEM, may be will try it later

 

[stefanusj]

i dont have M11, but the smallest and lightest combo for me is: M10M/MP + M Rokkor40mm mark2 (only 105grams / 4 ounces).

[Kl@usW.]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb TheEyesHaveIt:

Thanks - decided to go this route, starting with the 35 and will add the others as I get more comfortable.

Makes perfect sense to start with a 35 as a pivot. Which 35 doesn't really matter: I have the FLE, the Cron 4 and the Summarit. I use the Summarit mostly--  as good as the wider siblings if you don't need the speed  of the FLE or the flare of the Cron. 

[TheEyesHaveIt]

9 minutes ago, Kl@usW. said:

Makes perfect sense to start with a 35 as a pivot. Which 35 doesn't really matter: I have the FLE, the Cron 4 and the Summarit. I use the Summarit mostly--  as good as the wider siblings if you don't need the speed  of the FLE or the flare of the Cron. 

I found a mint second hand FLE for around $3k. While I may not need the speed at 21 or 75, nice to have 1.4 on the “primary” / 90% lens IMO just in case. Or buy multiple 35s but I’m far away from that! 😂

Edited October 26, 2022 by TheEyesHaveIt

[Archiver]

My M travel kit has long been 21, 35 and 50. Generally, this has been:

1. Zeiss Biogon 21mm f2.8
2. Voigtlander Nokton 35mm f1.4 MC
3. Leica Summicron 50mm f2 v5

These lenses are small and lightweight, and offer a lot of versatility.

In the last couple of years, I bought the Zeiss Distagon 35mm f1.4, a much larger but way better lens than the Nokton. It has colour, 3D pop and clarity like nothing else I've shot. The Distagon will replace the Nokton for overseas travel, despite being bigger and heavier. The image quality is worth it. My liking for the Distagon makes it the cornerstone of my M kit right now.

I also have the Voigtlander 15mm f4.5 LTM, and 12mm f5.6 v3. The original 15mm is tiny, and would easily slip into a bag without being noticed on walks.

On my last overseas trip, I found myself using 21mm the most, 50 for indoors, and the fast 35 for night as usual. I missed having a 28 for some reason, so I may take the Elmarit 28 asph as well next time. But this may change now that I have the Distagon.

[M11 for me]

Since I have the possibility to crop with my M11 my light combo changed from 28 and 50mm to 21 and 35mm. My third lens would be the 75mm. One lens on the camera and the 2 others in a small hip bag. 

If I take just one lens it is the 28mm.

[Archiver]

10 hours ago, pippy said:

28mm Elmarit ASPH; 50mm Summicron v4 / v5 and either 75mm or 90mm Summarit f2.4 / f2.5 depending on your 75/90 preferences.

P.

This reminds me of a set I experimented with some years ago. I thought that a 25/50/75 kit would be a good way to have distinct focal length jumps with maximal versatility. In practice, I hardly used the 75, and often wanted a fast 35 for situations where the 50 was too close and the 25 too wide. Having said that, the Zeiss Biogon 25mm was a superb walkaround lens, with excellent sharpness, contrast and pop.  It's just a shame that it developed bad focus ring scuffing and wobble.

[Archiver]

8 minutes ago, M11 for me said:

Since I have the possibility to crop with my M11 my light combo changed from 28 and 50mm to 21 and 35mm. My third lens would be the 75mm. One lens on the camera and the 2 others in a small hip bag. 

If I take just one lens it is the 28mm.

That's a really good point about the M11. Cropping becomes even more viable with the new sensor.

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[Kl@usW.]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb TheEyesHaveIt:

I found a mint second hand FLE for around $3k. While I may not need the speed at 21 or 75, nice to have 1.4 on the “primary” / 90% lens IMO just in case. Or buy multiple 35s but I’m far away from that! 😂

The FLE is a lens i could do with for the rest of my photographic life. I don't use it so often, but when, it really "wows"  me. Congrats for your purchase.