Reissue 35mm Summilux Pre-Asph V1 Steel Rim

[hdmesa]

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40 minutes ago, RexGig0 said:

True. Thanks. I did have low-distortion in mind, when mentioning the Ultron. The Nokton Classic 35/1.4 is, indeed, the closer to the pre-ASPH Summilux, but, with more barrel distortion. Not that a bit of barrel distortion is, necessarily, a bad thing, of course, especially for such subjects as children. A child, especially at close range, appears normal, with a bit of barrel distortion. One could use an Ultron for street shots, with architectural backgrounds, and a Nokton f/1.4 for times when one’s grandsons fill the frame, plus, a Nokton f/1.5 for whatever bokeh magic it has, and, finally, a Lanthar APO for when everything has to be “perfect.” Four 35mm VM lenses cover it all. 😉 Analysis paralysis is my bank account’s friend. 

In addition to children, any kind of still life (objects, plants, flowers, etc.) look nice with some barrel distortion at close range. It really adds to the dimensional look. Should be correctable in post, too. Thinking a Tiffen Glimmerglass filter might put the glow on the same level as the pre-A v2 or SR.

That's a lot of options there  I have heard the 35 Ultron may have some odd focusing behavior, though – stiffer headed toward infinity, etc.

 

[grahamc]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:59 AM, Crem said:

I haven't seen anything conclusive. I can confirm I do see some brass when I look at it from the rear, but I don't know how to check the other components. The machining on this lens is very impressive. They clearly have some really good CNC machines producing these parts. I attached a couple photos of the rear of the lens and one of them shows some brass. Personally I suspect some of the outer parts of the lens are aluminum, but I don't know how to confirm.

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Thanks very much Crem. Sorry I had missed this comment and notification. How are you enjoying the lens ?

 

 

[Crem]

22 hours ago, grahamc said:

Thanks very much Crem. Sorry I had missed this comment and notification. How are you enjoying the lens ?

 

 

hey @grahamc, overall I really like it even though it has some issues. Below are my thoughts after about 6 weeks of use and one holiday trip...

Likes:

• Size/weight is perfect. It's a joy to walk around with on both my black M11 and MP.
• I really like the look at F1.4 and F2. I tend to shoot stopped down, but it's great knowing I can dial in this look when I want it.
• F2.8 and up is sharp, plenty of contrast, etc. It's a do everything lens for me.

Dislikes:

• The hood situation seems like a joke. I spent a lot of money on a lens with two hoods and neither of them work properly. I've emailed Leica and I'm waiting on a response. 
• I don't like the infinity lock. In practice it doesn't impact real life shooting enough to matter, but I find it distracting. I do wonder if I'd prefer a good condition v2 without a lock. Or the voigtlander nokton classic II.
• My copy had a stiff focus ring when brand new. At first I thought something was wrong, but it really loosened up a lot with use. I haven't experienced this level of break-in with other Leica lenses.

Surprises:

• This is my first lens with significant focus shift. I was expecting it to be more difficult to learn how to compensate for it. Fortunately some practice with the M11 and live view made it easy. I'm glad I have a digital M as I would have wasted a lot of film trying to figure it out.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Crem

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, Crem said:

hey @grahamc, overall I really like it even though it has some issues. Below are my thoughts after about 6 weeks of use and one holiday trip...

Likes:

• Size/weight is perfect. It's a joy to walk around with on both my black M11 and MP.
• I really like the look at F1.4 and F2. I tend to shoot stopped down, but it's great knowing I can dial in this look when I want it.
• F2.8 and up is sharp, plenty of contrast, etc. It's a do everything lens for me.

Dislikes:

• The hood situation seems like a joke. I spent a lot of money on a lens with two hoods and neither of them work properly. I've emailed Leica and I'm waiting on a response. 
• I don't like the infinity lock. In practice it doesn't impact real life shooting enough to matter, but I find it distracting. I do wonder if I'd prefer a good condition v2 without a lock. Or the voigtlander nokton classic II.
• My copy had a stiff focus ring when brand new. At first I thought something was wrong, but it really loosened up a lot with use. I haven't experienced this level of break-in with other Leica lenses.

Surprises:

• This is my first lens with significant focus shift. I was expecting it to be more difficult to learn how to compensate for it. Fortunately some practice with the M11 and live view made it easy. I'm glad I have a digital M as I would have wasted a lot of film trying to figure it out.

I’ve been using the lens for a while with the M10M, have not experienced any focus shift. Focus is always where I wanted it to be, either at f1.4, or f2.8, or any other aperture. Also had the original, never experienced focus shift with it either. 

[Crem]

6 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I’ve been using the lens for a while with the M10M, have not experienced any focus shift. Focus is always where I wanted it to be, either at f1.4, or f2.8, or any other aperture. Also had the original, never experienced focus shift with it either. 

I'm curious if you are talking about real life photography or lens testing? Here's a bit more detail on what I observed...

Real life: I haven't noticed focus shift. It has never ruined a photo. I don't make extreme 60MP crops with this lens.

Lens testing: When I took the time to do some basic lens testing I was able to find it. It starts at about F2.8 (I didn't test half stops) and it was there at F4. I didn't bother testing past that. After experimenting with this lens and M11 I came to some conclusions...

• The lens has a lot more focus shift than the 35 FLE or a lens like the latest version 28 Elmarit. This is the result I expected.
• It's easy to compensate for focus shift and I do so when I use this lens at F2.8 and certain distances.
• Focus shift won't ruin a good photo. Compensating for it won't fix a bad photo. Previously I didn't really understand the real life impact focus shift.

 

[shirubadanieru]

6 hours ago, Crem said:

I'm curious if you are talking about real life photography or lens testing? Here's a bit more detail on what I observed...

Real life: I haven't noticed focus shift. It has never ruined a photo. I don't make extreme 60MP crops with this lens.

Lens testing: When I took the time to do some basic lens testing I was able to find it. It starts at about F2.8 (I didn't test half stops) and it was there at F4. I didn't bother testing past that. After experimenting with this lens and M11 I came to some conclusions...

• The lens has a lot more focus shift than the 35 FLE or a lens like the latest version 28 Elmarit. This is the result I expected.
• It's easy to compensate for focus shift and I do so when I use this lens at F2.8 and certain distances.
• Focus shift won't ruin a good photo. Compensating for it won't fix a bad photo. Previously I didn't really understand the real life impact focus shift.

 

Hi, I just use my lenses, so I am talking about real life. I’ve heard about focus shift affecting a lot on pre-asph lenses, but if you don’t notice it in real life, then is it even real?! Lol joking

But being a pre-asph only shooter, this is something I have never noticed when actually using any of the lenses I have to tried before, nor something that has ruined a picture for me. I mostly shoot at f2.8 ~ f5.6 ~ f11 on film or on MM, and my pictures come out in focus every time. 

[Crem]

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5 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Hi, I just use my lenses, so I am talking about real life. I’ve heard about focus shift affecting a lot on pre-asph lenses, but if you don’t notice it in real life, then is it even real?! Lol joking

But being a pre-asph only shooter, this is something I have never noticed when actually using any of the lenses I have to tried before, nor something that has ruined a picture for me. I mostly shoot at f2.8 ~ f5.6 ~ f11 on film or on MM, and my pictures come out in focus every time. 

haha yes we have come to the same conclusion regarding real life photos. I'm very curious, what do you think of the Steel Rim remake? Do you like it on film or do you prefer the original?

[shirubadanieru]

58 minutes ago, Crem said:

haha yes we have come to the same conclusion regarding real life photos. I'm very curious, what do you think of the Steel Rim remake? Do you like it on film or do you prefer the original?

The original looks prettier for sure, given the remake is streching a e41 lens design to fit in a e46 size, which makes it feel less jewel like. But the built of the remake is amazing too, reminds me of a MacBook, buit from one single block of metal. The filter/hood situation is the only annoyance really.

In terms of rendering I can't tell them apart, but the remake seems to have more contrast at all apertures, especially from f2.8. Glow is def there too as the original. Flare wise the shape of the flare is the same but it's def more flare resistant. That being said I don't have the original anymore to compare side by side.

[jakontil]

19 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

The original looks prettier for sure, given the remake is streching a e41 lens design to fit in a e46 size, which makes it feel less jewel like. But the built of the remake is amazing too, reminds me of a MacBook, buit from one single block of metal. The filter/hood situation is the only annoyance really.

In terms of rendering I can't tell them apart, but the remake seems to have more contrast at all apertures, especially from f2.8. Glow is def there too as the original. Flare wise the shape of the flare is the same but it's def more flare resistant. That being said I don't have the original anymore to compare side by side.

Btw is your aperture ring a bit stiffed from f8-f16? I think mine at first was though feel slightly smoother as it gets more use

[shirubadanieru]

14 minutes ago, jakontil said:

Btw is your aperture ring a bit stiffed from f8-f16? I think mine at first was though feel slightly smoother as it gets more use

Not that I've noticed, everything is good with my copy. 

[grahamc]

On 1/22/2023 at 7:09 PM, Crem said:

hey @grahamc, overall I really like it even though it has some issues. Below are my thoughts after about 6 weeks of use and one holiday trip...

Likes:

• Size/weight is perfect. It's a joy to walk around with on both my black M11 and MP.
• I really like the look at F1.4 and F2. I tend to shoot stopped down, but it's great knowing I can dial in this look when I want it.
• F2.8 and up is sharp, plenty of contrast, etc. It's a do everything lens for me.

Dislikes:

• The hood situation seems like a joke. I spent a lot of money on a lens with two hoods and neither of them work properly. I've emailed Leica and I'm waiting on a response. 
• I don't like the infinity lock. In practice it doesn't impact real life shooting enough to matter, but I find it distracting. I do wonder if I'd prefer a good condition v2 without a lock. Or the voigtlander nokton classic II.
• My copy had a stiff focus ring when brand new. At first I thought something was wrong, but it really loosened up a lot with use. I haven't experienced this level of break-in with other Leica lenses.

Surprises:

• This is my first lens with significant focus shift. I was expecting it to be more difficult to learn how to compensate for it. Fortunately some practice with the M11 and live view made it easy. I'm glad I have a digital M as I would have wasted a lot of film trying to figure it out.

Thanks Crem, sorry I missed this reply ! 

Sorry to hear about the dislikes and surprises ... sure does look like a nice lens.  The hood situation looks odd (too long and ugly screwed into a filter IMO) so if I was to go with the reissue I think no hood and screw in filter would be where I'd be heading 

[shirubadanieru]

mapcamera just released a video on the SR original vs reissue ↓

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by shirubadanieru

[Jon Warwick]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:47 AM, shirubadanieru said:

I’ve been using the lens for a while with the M10M, have not experienced any focus shift. Focus is always where I wanted it to be, either at f1.4, or f2.8, or any other aperture. Also had the original, never experienced focus shift with it either. 

Perhaps others can comment, but I'm curious about this lens on the M10 Monochrom. At present, I only use super sharp APOs (Voigtlander 35mm and 50mm APO Lanthars) on this camera, which are very high contrast and very high resolving. I'm looking for a 35mm lens that is gentler (more filmic?) on the M10M in terms of contrast. That said, I equally don't want a lens that is low resolving or where edges of the frame are rubbish! At mid apertures like f5.6, does the new Steel Rim give both benefits, ie, lower contrast and a softer more cinematic rendering, but equally not sacrificing too much in terms of capturing fine detail or edge-to-edge sharpness either (or does the contrast ramp up by f5.6 towards a modern look)? If there are other lenses (perhaps in the Voigtlander range) that might fit what I'm looking for, I'd also love to hear about suggestions. Thanks for any ideas.

[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, Jon Warwick said:

Perhaps others can comment, but I'm curious about this lens on the M10 Monochrom. At present, I only use super sharp APOs (Voigtlander 35mm and 50mm APO Lanthars) on this camera, which are very high contrast and very high resolving. I'm looking for a 35mm lens that is gentler (more filmic?) on the M10M in terms of contrast. That said, I equally don't want a lens that is low resolving or where edges of the frame are rubbish! At mid apertures like f5.6, does the new Steel Rim give both benefits, ie, lower contrast and a softer more cinematic rendering, but equally not sacrificing too much in terms of capturing fine detail or edge-to-edge sharpness either (or does the contrast ramp up by f5.6 towards a modern look)? If there are other lenses (perhaps in the Voigtlander range) that might fit what I'm looking for, I'd also love to hear about suggestions. Thanks for any ideas.

Ive posted quite a few M10M shots with this lens here, check them out. If you like sharp lenses, this is definitely not it. 

f1.4~f2.8 —> center is always sharp, yet glowy. Corners are soft.

f2.8 onwards —> everything looks good to me, can’t differentiate it from an ASPH lens, it just looks better to my eyes (less contrast / better bokeh)

Please understand this is very personal though, and as context, I only shoot 1920~1960s lenses, so my preferences towards sharpness, especially in the corners may vastly differ from yours. I also only shoot people and street, so if you mostly shoot arquitecture, landscapes, etc. I understand there are better options.

Edited January 24, 2023 by shirubadanieru

[Crem]

4 hours ago, grahamc said:

Thanks Crem, sorry I missed this reply ! 

Sorry to hear about the dislikes and surprises ... sure does look like a nice lens.  The hood situation looks odd (too long and ugly screwed into a filter IMO) so if I was to go with the reissue I think no hood and screw in filter would be where I'd be heading 

Screw in filter and no hood is what the lens designers intended😂. It’s winter here so it hasn’t been much of a problem, but come summer I’m curious how it will work out. I’m talking bright sunny days at the beach where I’ve always used a hood with a filter. Leica hasn’t responded to my email… I asked them what they plan on doing to fix the situation. You just reminded me to send them another one. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Crem

[Crem]

I just got a response from Leica about my round hood. To recap, the round hood vents don’t line up correctly on my copy. The result is a bit of extra blockage in the viewfinder. Does it impact photo taking? Not really since I won’t ever use this hood. Is it annoying on such an expensive product? Yes. This is Leica’s response. See my previous post for photos of the blockage (the bar). They left the threads to random chance 😂

the engineers told me “the threads of the lens hood and the accessory carrier are not cut at the measuring point, so the position of the 3 openings is variable. This has the consequence that a bar between 2 openings can appear arbitrarily in the rangefinder window.

[hdmesa]

32 minutes ago, Crem said:

I just got a response from Leica about my round hood. To recap, the round hood vents don’t line up correctly on my copy. The result is a bit of extra blockage in the viewfinder. Does it impact photo taking? Not really since I won’t ever use this hood. Is it annoying on such an expensive product? Yes. This is Leica’s response. See my previous post for photos of the blockage (the bar). They left the threads to random chance 😂

the engineers told me “the threads of the lens hood and the accessory carrier are not cut at the measuring point, so the position of the 3 openings is variable. This has the consequence that a bar between 2 openings can appear arbitrarily in the rangefinder window.

I'm not surprised this is the case, but I'm surprised they said so.

Also, WTF 🤦‍♂️💀

[Crem]

10 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I'm not surprised this is the case, but I'm surprised they said so.

Also, WTF 🤦‍♂️💀

WTF is exactly what I said. In some ways this hood situation reminds me of Apple when John Ivy had too much control. The hoods are beautiful, but make no sense in terms of usability. I really doubt an engineer made these hood decisions. I do appreciate customer supports honesty. That’s rare these days. They are going to get back to me on the hard vignette issue. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Crem

[hdmesa]

2 minutes ago, Crem said:

WTF is exactly what I said. In some ways this hood situation reminds me of Apple when John Ivy had too much control. The hoods are beautiful, but make no sense in terms of usability. I really doubt an engineer made these hood decisions. I do appreciate customer supports honesty. That’s rare these days. They are going to get back to me on the hard vignette issue. 

Given Leica's history with the current production 50 Summilux Black Chrome hood, I doubt they will do anything about this.

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Hallo,

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[Crem]

17 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Given Leica's history with the current production 50 Summilux Black Chrome hood, I doubt they will do anything about this.

I know you are most likely right, but I’m still holding out a bit of hope. I still don’t understand why they didn’t make the round hood be a clip on style like the square version and have it slide right over the filter. 🤷