Leica and dealer network….

[Anbaric]

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On 8/31/2022 at 8:27 PM, mnutzer said:

Independent dealers can still advise on products that should be compared across companies in order to find the right part for the customer.
But with a unique camera system like the Leica M and its lenses, I don't want to be constantly being referred by dealers to other camera systems for which they might get a higher trading margin or where they might get pressure from their management to sell them off before they are superseded by the next model variant.
That's why I appreciate the Leica stores, where I can try out the new M11 without having to keep repeating that I'm not interested in any Sony, Olympus, Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad or whatever else still is in store.

Maybe it's different elsewhere, but I've never seen an independent UK Leica dealer try to push alternative systems. In fact, some are (or were) specialists, with Leica as their core business (there are still a couple of these dealers in London). Leica-owned stores, like Apple stores, are all about funneling back a bigger share of the profits to the parent company (you don't see many independent Apple specialist dealers these days either).

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[BradS]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:06 AM, Huss said:

Actually in the case of Tesla, there is.  Tesla fixes the prices - list price is what you see and what you pay.  No add ons.  No mysterious charges.  No "market adjustments".

Other car dealerships in the last couple of years have indulged in massive price gouging.  In Los Angeles the avg mark up was something like $8-$10K per car over summer.

It's not just LA. The same crazy shit has been going on up here in the sticks too. It is especially prevalent now that supplies are severely constrained. It used to be only "special cars" had the dealer added markup...now, even the mundane models have at least $5k added!  As long as people continue pay, the legalized thievery will continue.

 

The Tesla sales (and service) model may have some issues & opportunities, it may not be perfect, but it at least does not include routinely extracting a pound of flesh,"just because you can"....and I have not even mentioned the psychological mind fuck one routinely gets from car dealerships.

[BradS]

On 8/31/2022 at 12:54 PM, Linford said:

My AD did the same. Urged me to get it from “the site” because he knows I want the camera for a trip that is coming very soon. I told him I would wait to get it from him. He has been helping me with Leica products for 10-years and provides services a corporation cannot and will not provide. He has always taken care of me and the many friends I have sent his way. I’ll fight the trend as long as I can. I’m glad I’m not young.

 

Please name your dealer so that the rest of us can benefit from their goodness.

[Huss]

5 minutes ago, BradS said:

It's not just LA. The same crazy shit has been going on up here in the sticks too. It is especially prevalent now that supplies are severely constrained. It used to be only "special cars" had the dealer added markup...now, even the mundane models have at least $5k added!  As long as people continue pay, the legalized thievery will continue.

 

The Tesla sales (and service) model may have some issues & opportunities, it may not be perfect, but it at least does not include routinely extracting a pound of flesh,"just because you can"....and I have not even mentioned the psychological mind fuck one routinely gets from car dealerships.

For example, in LA a Kia Forte - $22K car, is being sold at $30K.  When my gf was car shopping a few months ago (she had to, her car was totalled by someone running a stop sign), the choice came down to not what she wanted, but where she wouldn't get ripped off.  Toyota Rav4s and Honda CRVs for $15K over sticker!

She ended up with a Mazda 3 sedan (a very nice car!) at MSRP, and because I bought my Miata from that dealer 10 years ago (!!!) they gave her $1K off for customer loyalty!

Galpin Mazda in North HIlls (Los Angeles).

[Linford]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:35 AM, Al Brown said:

Nikon is 4% for the dealer, DJI is 10-12% for the dealer here in EU. Hard facts.

(I am not allowed to say how much Leica is for the dealer here).

I'm not sure why people are concerned about dealer profits. There is no discount associated with sidestepping a dealer network. The manufacturers--all of them, see it as a way of increasing THEIR profitability and control. The end game will ultimately give them greater price controls which eliminates competition and ultimately will cost the consumer more. Apple examples: Apple is one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. Tesla: you pay their number or you don't get one. Not sure that it is a good trend in the long run. JMHO. Cheers!

[Huss]

19 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

The dealer profits are an indicator how much discount dealers can or can't offer to frequent regular customers - what % of their profits is even plausible. Because people do not realize that at 4% profits for the dealer on the Nikon they are unable to give them 20% off... That's why people SHOULD be concerned about dealer profits - and know them. Mainly to avoid waisting dealers' time with impossible requests, demands or expectations.

Do people actually go into a camera shop and demand a discount on the new camera or lens they want to buy?  I've never seen that.

The only time I've seen haggle room is with used gear.

[Huss]

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1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

No, dealers offer discounts to pro photographers and regular high rollers constantly here in Europe. It is the other side of the rainbow for being loyal.

But you just wrote:

The dealer profits are an indicator how much discount dealers can or can't offer to frequent regular customers - what % of their profits is even plausible. Because people do not realize that at 4% profits for the dealer on the Nikon they are unable to give them 20% off... That's why people SHOULD be concerned about dealer profits - and know them. Mainly to avoid waisting dealers' time with impossible requests, demands or expectations.

Make up your mind...

[250swb]

I'm unsure why Leica dealers should ever give discounts on Leica gear given it is always in short supply so can demand the full retail price, and always have such a fantastic pre-order list?

Other manufactures often offer discounts on introductory bundles of new cameras, like I got a great deal on my Nikon Z7 compared with buying the bits separately, but it's not a dealer discount. Manufacturers often have discount schemes going that buyers don't ever know about, discounts direct, discounts to dealers, money back discounts, etc. These can all make your camera shop look like it's taking very good care of you when they aren't actually losing any money at all.

[250swb]

35 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

My Leica Boutique guy always gives me 3%. He knows I will spread the word and send everyone to him, be it for new or for used gear. And I do. Those 3% are an awesome ROI.

We are not all bit hitters like you, some people like me have to pay the ticket price. But at the same time I have peace of mind that I'm not actually asking for handouts, pay the man for a fair days work is what I say.

 

[Anbaric]

5 hours ago, Huss said:

Do people actually go into a camera shop and demand a discount on the new camera or lens they want to buy?  I've never seen that.

The only time I've seen haggle room is with used gear.

I don't demand, but I do ask. I got some sort of discount on all the Nikon bodies I bought new by asking the dealers to price match other shops, etc.

[jakontil]

Yeah, I’d ask but i dont demand, if the price matches my budget i’d buy it

i buy not for the discounts 

[T25UFO]

@Linford you make a very good point.  I was going to suggest a couple of excellent UK dealers who have both the MA and MP in stock, and then I noticed your location 🙂

The way we purchase products is changing - this includes the demise of the 'high street' and the rise of the online retailer.  While Leica is not in the same league as companies like Apple and Tesla, with their trillion dollar market cap, they do sell a premium product in a niche market so I can see the logic of owned retail stores.  This also provides the opportunity to present their product in the best way possible - easy for Leica to showcase photographs taken with their product by world class photographers.

As often happens with a thought provoking subject, this thread veered a bit off course with questions about discounts and mark ups etc.  The motor industry was one such example, but there are many other factors in play here.  My last new car purchase was in December 2019, a premium brand (Porsche) and I still managed to negotiate a small discount.  I change my cars on a three year cycle so ordered a new model in March and was told the delivery would be in September . . . NEXT YEAR and of course, no discount.

A new car is cheaper today than the equivalent 12 month old secondhand model because the only car you can walk into a showroom and buy today is that secondhand model. We live in strange times.

[idusidusi]

On 8/31/2022 at 9:27 PM, mnutzer said:

Independent dealers can still advise on products that should be compared across companies in order to find the right part for the customer.
But with a unique camera system like the Leica M and its lenses, I don't want to be constantly being referred by dealers to other camera systems for which they might get a higher trading margin or where they might get pressure from their management to sell them off before they are superseded by the next model variant.
That's why I appreciate the Leica stores, where I can try out the new M11 without having to keep repeating that I'm not interested in any Sony, Olympus, Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad or whatever else still is in store.

With you totally on this. I bought through the Zurich Store, where they have extremely good, knowledgable and friendly staff. They take their time, they are courteous and advice me, even if I don't go for the most expensive choices. I have nothing but praise for the Leica Store Zurich and the personnel there: Andreas, Stefaan and Ivo (retired). No other camera store gives that level of service on items of Leica. That's not to say I do not use independents too. There are some really good ones, I just prefer Leica Store Zurich for Leica.

The Leica store gives less discount than the independent I use, for obvious reasons, as they sell Fuji, Nikon, Canon etc etc. The service is equally good for those other makes.

Edited September 15, 2022 by idusidusi
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